Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 Were Kristen and John even together at this point? I don't remember, but at the very least it was shaky. Not excusing that behavior or anything, but I don't know if I agree John/Marlena were gaslighting everyone. Acting like two clueless people? Yes. I remember there was a scene at John's loft where Marlena was in a towel and it was wholly inappropriate for two people that weren't together, but that's on John. He made the move back to Kristen. Marlena could have been honest with him, but John was generally the one in the wrong. He was emotionally and physically cheating on Kristen (all those random, weird make out sessions Jarlena would have on *accident*) Idk, I do tend to think it's on Kristen too. She obviously has her doubts and doesn't really lay it all out on the line either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KLN Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Speaking of, this reminds me of the scene where Kristen and Marlena are arguing and Marlena was all "Who stood by John when he was on trial?! It certainly wasn't you. You thought he was capable of murder, you never knew him!" EVERY shred of evidence pointed to John killing Tony. But nope. They gaslit her for 2+ years before she finally snapped. Maybe gaslight is the wrong word. At the very least they weren't honest with a lot of people. Kristen had frailties but John did her dirty. At the end of the day it's a soap and we're picking apart characters I enjoy no matter which side of the story they fell on. But looking back? J&M caused mess and JER swept a lot of that under the rug post-Kristen. Edited January 2, 2022 by KLN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Agreed. Literally every piece of evidence pointed toward John. Tony/Andre's plan was brilliant not gonna lie. But of course Marlena would believe John. Anyhow, Marlena actually does tell John she only thinks of him as a friend and tells him to pursue Kristen after that bizarro cuddling scene so she is a total enabler on this. Like I am watching this in pieces after a long while and I am having a hard time understanding John/Marlena's motivations. I DO think John did Kristen dirty for sure. But I am not sure if Marlena did Roman dirty. I mean, yeah, she had an affair, but Roman was kinda a dick to her for his entire return. That DOES NOT excuse cheating, but the way Roman was treating her I'd probably want to bang John too. All the lies afterward suck and traumatizing Sami, but Roman was an assh*le. It just never sat right with me that Roman was all hey I am back nothing that happened in between matters at all. Also, sidenote. Deidre looks gorgeous with that longer hair. So, so pretty. But like her telling John they are just the dearest friends is a choice for sure. Edited January 2, 2022 by carolineg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KLN Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 Agreed. I deleted that because the Roman thing is more murky. John did Kristen dirty for sure, though. I'm glad Ron seems to see Kristen as her own character outside J&M's orbit. I love their entanglements but she deserves to be her own character in my opinion, preferably not all black or white but with combustible impulsivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Franko Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 Not to butt in, but I feel it's an appropriate time to share this lil' doozy of a scene that I'm sure we're all familiar with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wendy Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 Still makes me bawl like a baby. I loved John/Isabella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Roman just got a bad edit on this. He wasn't very nice to Marlena, but I will always feel so, so bad for him when he finds out Belle isn't his daughter. It was sad. Kristen is her own character for sure. But I do think she should have a life long hatred toward John/Marlena because they did her wrong. I mean she did them very wrong as well, but they were being ridiculous and didn't really care about who they hurt as long as they didn't hurt themselves. Bye Izzy B! I actually cried when these aired and I strongly dislike Isabella. Not gonna lie she was very obnoxious. Sucks she died though. Her death tour around Salem was so annoying. Like I can't with her. So sorry brady grew up without her, but she sucked. Edited January 2, 2022 by carolineg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Franko Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 Just to be clear, I meant the Roman/Marlena argument at the end of the upload, which still gives me goosebumps. (Although, to rewind back to Izzy's death, she DID put the proverbial gun in Marlena's hand by advising her to comfort John after she was gone. Just sayin'.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KLN Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Yes, yes, yes. That's why I loved that scene with John and Kristen in the hotel room in 2012. "Did you think I'd stay on the ground where you left me? You treated me like I was something stuck to the bottom of your shoe." Agreed there should be lifelong hatred. At this point I'd say she's done them much dirtier than they did her but back when they first became her catalyst? They kind of had it coming in 2012. That's good. Damn I miss Wayne! Edited January 2, 2022 by KLN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Oh, I love that argument. Sorry I just couldn't get past Izzy b. It was awkward when she told Marlena to care for John and people will talk about it but won't understand. Yeah, they probably won't understand you having sex with John, Marlena. When people say Deidre can't act I think she's wonderful in those scenes with Wayne. It was a real argument that finally made sense for them after years of them not talking about it. I don't know why, but I always giggle when Deidre/Marlena says I always drive defensively. Like what? I literally love Wayne so much. Roman was an ass but, damn, it's so difficult to reconcile JT's Roman with an actual good character. Edited January 2, 2022 by carolineg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Franko Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 I know what you mean. It kinda works in the moment for Marlena, still trying to keep up some pretension of poise, but it also sounds silly. My inner monologue always adds "And I wear a seat belt, too!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 And in her all white outfit lol. It's just an odd thing to say, but it's something I will never forget. I always assumed Marlena was a good driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KLN Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 100%. JT as Roman is something I've never been able to reconcile. Edited January 2, 2022 by KLN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 I mean I am going to fault John on this mostly. After Marlena's initial weirdness about John, she was pretty upfront with Kristen (post letter) about her feelings. Kristen did know where Marlena stood on it all. Kristen was absolutely the villian and did Marlena and John very wrong, but I don't think it's as black and white as J/M good. Kristen bad. Overall, she's just a blip on the radar for our Jarlena lovestory, but it was a moment. I want to start a petition to bring Wayne back immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KLN Posted January 2, 2022 Members Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Agreed. It's mostly on John but it's a soap and foes folly when they could turn heels on the man instead. Just like life except obviously exaggerated. She was a villain in the end for sure, I loved that and it had it's perks, but with Kristen's backstory going back to childhood and everything that came after, I think they could work her as something more dark grey. Maybe jet black when she misses her meds. Please register in order to view this content With a different creative interpretation I think Kristen has legs, just not as a fully stabilized character. She works best in rotation but she has broad appeal for sure. My sensibilities have always told me that and she alone could generate a decade or more of story. Also yes. If I'm going to watch this show again I want Wayne. Edited January 2, 2022 by KLN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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