B&B: Bold from the beginning

[kalbir]

Sally Spectra arrives in December 1988 and it's a turning point. Building a business and family around her was genius. The Spectra gang pretty much replaces the Logans by 1991.

[DramatistDreamer]

The show should have tried Bill and Stephanie, at least for a brief affair, particularly as Eric begins his May/December relationship with Brooke.

And yeah, loads of wasted characters. Nick and Donna barely scratched the surface and Katie was forever wasted in one deadend story or another. I was more than ready for Beth and Steven to go to Paris when they did as it was obvious that the show had waning interest in Beth since the recast.

[Maxim]

Maybe I see it in a different way, but I find 1987, 1988, 1989 and onwards... I am now up to 1992...1993... incredibly balanced. Every show has missed opportunities. But I think they chose the right ones. I think Caroline dying really did something good to the show... it started to breathe better and be more real. I am not opposed Caroline, I just think it's better written after her death. Taylor is incredibly interesting the first 2-3 years... before she becomes the maniac with the hysteric moving head.

I just adore Stephanie in every scene and I wish more and more Stephanie every time I watch. 

[Paul Raven]

I can understand the writers going in the direction they did, especially in a half hour show where they wanted to keep the cast roughly the same size.

And there wasn't the burden/obligation to hang on to characters as they were beloved vets (a problem that haunts today's Y&R)

The overall push in the 80's was towards wealthier characters. The Forrestors had taken the spotlight and unless they could find a way to integrate the Logans, they became islanded, whereas the Spectra clan were directly involved.

[allmc2008]

I recently read parts of the "Rags" bible and, please, nobody hound over it.

I'm curious if this happened:

So, in it, Stephanie is sexually frustrated and her daughter, Kristen, is frigid. Kristen starts seeing a man who wants to be with her sexually. They are at the pool and she refuses his advances and then runs to her room and sobs.

Stephanie, who is sex starved, was watching and offers to be used by him when he is needing to, well, have sex with Kristen -- she encourages the relationship between the two SO she can be with this guy.

I do know Stephen wasn't on the show in the beginning but he is critical to the  initial story-line.

Bell originally wanted Ridge/Caroline for the first 3 weeks or so and then write her (and the entire family) out after the wedding is called out. The Logan's were very prominent and Stephen/Eric was going to have a Rich Dad/Poor Dad feel. Stephen wasn't a deadbeat but he was a man who, though reeking with ambition, had many failed businesses. Beth's catering service she worked for, though, was the bread and butter of the family (so to speak).  However, Bill Bell makes it VERY clear that Stephanie IS NOT worthy of Eric and Stephen IS NOT worthy of Beth and for Eric/Beth to be end game.

Brooke is called Jessica. Forrester, the last name, is Chandler. Beth's mom was supposed to be on and serve as a Nancy Hughes of sorts. He GREATLY emphasized on needing a LOT of senior-citizen story lines. And Forrester Creations is called Ingenue Designs.

 

I'm sure I know the answer to this and I feel like an idiot for asking. Was there some mentioning on the show of Thorn being gay? It's stated that other characters think he is as he showed very little, if any, interest in women. And that a rumor was going to start in which everyone feels it's fact.

[Franko]

Fascinating. I don't think they ever suggested Thorne was gay (but I haven't watched all the retro episodes available). I will note that even back in the early days, the idea of B&B not having a gay character was seen as odd/unrealistic.

[Soaplovers]

I do sense in the early episodes Beth/Eric were end game especially with the original actress playing Beth.

Interesting that in the bible that Caroline was only meant to be short term.

And while I agree with phasing out the Logans, I do think that Brooke being the sole Logan and being focused on did hinder the show.  She was kind of a limited character in terms of story avenues.

On the other hand, Donna had a lot more avenues to have explored with being a model, working briefly at Spencer Publications, and having that pseudo father figure Bill....her story got short shafted by year 3..and becoming tied to Thorne in year 3.

[DramatistDreamer]

Donna was probably the most interesting of the Logans to me and the most modern in her day. Her character was openly ambitious, wanted better for herself and it her happiness was never tied to one man. I can't figure out why the decision was made to take the character in the direction she was taken in the third year and beyond.

Question: did Joanna Johnson opt not to renew before Caroline was ended? If so, I could see why. B&B seemed very wedded to the idea of endless love triangles even before the '00s and I can imagine that would become pretty boring after awhile.

[kalbir]

I think Joanna Johnson announced in December 1989 that she was going to leave when her contract was up in March 1990, but Bill Bell got her to stay until July 1990. Thus Ridge and Caroline's marriage, effectively ending the Ridge/Thorne/Caroline/Brooke quad (which was also derailed by the recasting of Thorne and real-life pregnancy of Katherine Kelly Lang), and later Caroline's illness and death. Around the same time Bill Bell set up Thorne/Macy and Eric/Brooke.

Edited March 6, 2022 by kalbir

[Paul Raven]

There was talk in SOD at the time of a Caroline recast. Genie Francis was mentioned as a possibility.

[Soaplovers]

Bill Bell seemed kind of impulsive in his writing.  He probably decided to refocus the show on Spectra vs Forrester... and just dropped the Logan family.  

Only reason he probably kept Donna was because she was more connected to the concept of the show due to her being model, etc... then the other Logans.  I think it was a shame that they dropped Nick and also dropped the Donna/Bill mentor relationship... but I did think it was wise to tie her to the Spectras via her friendship with Macy (fulfilling the void left by Katie) and being a model for their brand.

And it worked to further the dislike Stephanie had for the Logan's because she viewed Donna working for Spectra as another black mark she had against that family.  I just didn't like that the show had her fall for Thorne when I think she could have been viable with her own story/focus over on the Spectra side.

I also don't think Bill Bell was capable of writing a modern woman without tying her to a man.. and I think that's what he tried to do with Donna in year 3 with Thorne before having her just floating around with nothing to do in year 4 except be the talk to for Brooke and a recast Storm.

[DramatistDreamer]

You know, considering Bell's history of methodical, some might say "slow" writing, impulsive would not be a term that would normally come to mind when describing him but in this case, I think you may be correct here.  In some subtle ways, B&B was a tad more "experimental" (filming of exterior/interior shots, etc) than Y&R, which had a more staid aura.

With the Writer's Strike the previous year, it's clear why many aspects of the show seemed so uneven then but 1989 was rocky in some aspects that seem inexplicable. Clearly 1989 was a transitional year but the way some situations shift got wild! The way three characters (all happened to be male) got herded off the show in short order was really jarring. I guess there were reasons why the characters diminished or disappeared but the mechanism could have been more artful. I mean, didn't Rocco practically disappear? Nick seemed to have vanished. It was weird.

[Paul Raven]

Well, Bill Bell always claimed that he didn't plan too far ahead so he wasn't always locked in to a particular story direction.

So in that sense he could make moves that might be considered impulsive.

[Forever8]

I'm curious to know if Donan would've stayed longer on the canvas I wonder what stories she would've potentially had. 

[Dion]

She probably could have had most of Karen's storylines. The only one that wouldn't fit would of course be the initial storyline with Blake finding her at the diner as Faith and discovering that she was Caroline's long lost twin. The rest - triangle with Thorne and Macy, working with Spectra, being Brooke's confidant until they fell out over Connor, her relationship with Connor etc all seem to be storylines that Donna could've had.