When did Josh Griffith became a bad writer? Or when Good Writers take a turn for the worse

[soapfan770]

That’s a good point, there definitely was a lot of interference I suppose the lines of fault definitely get blurred. I was unmoved by Michael’s death as I never liked the character but Carl’s death left me cold. Throw in characters inexplicably going off the rails crazy (ie Paulina) and then in Marley’s case completely insane and obsessed with her rapist ex husband the show was a mess after what I thought had been a slight upswing during Malone’s tenure. 

[DRW50]

 

I never could keep track of who did what - I thought Malone was the one who made Paulina crazy. 

[soapfan770]

You’re right-Malone had started the speed  addiction storyline. Under Culliton is when there was the house fire mystery and she skipped town with her son when Joe was wanting her drug tested or something, the details are blurry to me now, Paulina just had all around terrible stories those last 3-4 years the show was on the air. 

[DRW50]

 

The only thing I can recall is I was pleased Culliton remembered her history enough to bring back that foster sister of hers (now recast, of course). Paulina and Joe were very exhausting in those years, sad to say. 

[titan1978]

Oh today’s soaps absolutely depend on the team.

 

I personally think Gary Tomlin is near hack as an EP and as a HW.  However, his time as HW on DAYS with Whitsell, when surrounded by the very strong writing team they had, was much better day to day than anything under Higley, Griffith, or Ron.  The Cullitons especially wrote such great scripts the show was so much more watchable.  I felt the same way about GH under Guza’s various terms there, even when he was co-head with Pratt.

 

 

 

 

[LondonScribe]

I wonder if you may have stumbled across Y&R’s next Head Writer in waiting (possibly with Christopher Whitesell)? Unless either or both are retired.

 

They both fall into the ‘experienced/recycled’ category favoured.
 

There are suitable (and new) voices within the existing team, but TPTB seem reluctant to promote from within.

Edited March 9, 2021 by LondonScribe

[AbcNbc247]

I'd love to see Chris Whitesell back on Days. He wrote and plotted out some really good storylines. His flaw was always the transition from one story to the next. He never knew what to do with the characters once their good storyline was complete.

 

He'd need a good co-writer to balance that out.

Edited March 9, 2021 by AbcNbc247

[Soap-princess]

He was actually a good one? I think soap writing lost its way in the early 2000s. 

[koos]

I (temporarily) stopped watching Days before Griffith made it so dark. I'm sure it wasn't good, but this just leads me to wonder why his Y&R is so insanely bland, dry, colorless, flat, etc. I would enjoy an oppressively dark Y&R in place of what it is right now.

Edited March 9, 2021 by koos

[Vee]

 

Burnout. I think you only see hints of his past obsessions in stuff like the Delia story and the endless trauma they keep rehashing with it years later.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Vee

[Taoboi]

Well, I do like what I remember of his OLTL run.

 

And I don't remember his first Y&R run being too bad. But I think I was one of the few. Prehaps it was because MAB was out. And I was got the impression in his first run that he seem to care. But I loved Lauren having a story (and Carmine was hot). And I loved there was a teen scene. And it appeared they were using vets. But it's been years since I've seen it. 

 

And yeeeeah NO. I regularly watched during DAYS' 50th anniversary. So much potential. But I was OUT when Ciara got raped in the Horton house of all places. I was like...when did he get this...morbid?

 

And his second Y&R has some moments...I've behind, but nothing to write home about. And don't get me started on the fact that some of it is recycled from his 2013 run...erasing all the good things (like characters like Kevin/Chloe gone) that happened since he was there last.

 

And speaking of recycling...as said earlier...I don't like that when writers move to a different show that they recycle some of their plots. Or I guess I should say plots that they are known for writing (RC and his obsession with DID comes to mind). Now, writers moving to other shows and using a character as a trope that they are used to using I can understand. Just put a fresh spin on it. Or even better...try to be different while matching the tone of the show they are writing for. 

 

 

[juppiter]

Man, Higley has been on and off Days so many times I've lost track. You gotta post what storylines went with each tenure. It's all a blur to me.

[beebs]

So...I'm sure folks can fill in more on this, but I'll post what I remember:

2003-04 - Sami flying through the DiMera glass doors, placeholding until Reilly came in, but I don't really remember, other than the fact the show dropped from a solid #3 to #8 in the ratings within 4 weeks of Dena's arrival, which seemed to escape Corday's memory when he was writing his book.

 

2009-12 - Sami/Nicole Baby Switch, Carly/Vivian return, Parker Jonas who's-the-daddy, and "Melanie, Carly, and Daniel do a mediocre pantomime of the Jessica Blake as Marie Horton's secret daughter storyline", except Carly magically becomes addicted to pills because...I think...Melanie was mean to her?????, Kate playing the Wicked Witch from Snow White and poisoning Chloe with an apple because she had dumped Lucas for St. Daniel Of The Sacred Heart on the Cross of the Eucharist.

2015-17 - There was a lot:

- Necktie Killer 

- Bo returns only to die on the Horton Town Square Official Brain Tumour Death Park Bench (TM) (Lexie died on the exact same bench three years earlier)

- Ciara's raped by Chase on Tom & Alice's couch so Claire & Co. tie Chase to a chair and torment him for a few days while Ciara-whose-jaw-was-apparently-wired-shut grunted at Claire to let him go

- Aiden turns out to be evil...also a twin???

- John is actually the son of a dated Asian stereotype who lives in the hills??? I tuned out by this point so someone could do a better job explaining the Robichaud nonsense than me.

- Jungle Madness Redux that was somehow worse than the original story

- Orpheus redux Pt. 1 with bombs going off all over town that no one ever actually saw go off because the show had no budget to actually blow anything up, so instead we got a scene of Paul standing in Marlena's penthouse looking out a window, then cut to commercial, and after the break, Will comes in to find Paul passed out on the floor with nary even a shard of shattered glass around him.

- David Banning killed offscreen with Susan Seaforth Hayes devouring the Horton Town Square set loudly moaning about his death

- The Deimos Debacle, complete with ripping off the made-up drug story from AMC.

- Hope finally having enough and gunning Stefano down

- Eric and Jennifer become addicts, Eric mows down St. Daniel Of The Sacred Heart on the Cross of the Eucharist, becomes a brooding bushman who exists only for Nicole to hurl abuse at and mope

 

I think that's it? God, the 50th was absolutely TERRIBLE, wasn't it???

Edited March 10, 2021 by beebs

[Vee]

IIRC Griffith did the Jigsaw/Tobin Bell story along with the Ciara rape, Bo's death, Aidan the Necktie Killer copycat, Hope killing Stefano, etc. Higley was co-HW part of the time.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Vee

[beebs]

I think they started together, Bo was definitely gone by then. Then the rape happened AS Dena was going on sabbatical, starting about Feburary 2016, and it was Beth Milstein who was filling in from there until September, then Griffith got the boot, and Corday kept Dena and paired her with Ryan Quan for the next year, which is when Jungle Madness Pt. 2, Deimos-o-rama, and Eli & Valerie were introduced.

My timelines aren't always perfect, though, so I'd have to look to be sure.

Thing is, Higley is still listed as co-HW throughout this period, and how much of it was planned with/by her, just executed in her absence. So, I still count it as her, for the most part.

Edited March 10, 2021 by beebs