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The Story of Soaps Primetime Special

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4 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I think the importance of saying that soaps where made for women by women wasn't an insult at all. Soaps were targeting the female consumer and the fact that they were written largely by women at one time is important to point out especially since most entertainment spaces, many of those that target women, are actually run and conducted by men

Hi Eric, glad you are contributing again.

In terms of womens involvement in soaps you have raised an interesting point as to how much involvement they have had over the years.

Going back to the 50's and 60's you had Irna Phillips , of course and she was a powerhouse and her protege Agnes but that was really it in terms of power and influence.

There was Luci Ferri producing at TGL and Carol Irwin at Young Dr Malone .Gloria Monty directing Secret Storm and a few other writers but the majority of the work was done by men.

I think those women were respected but there didn't seem to be any push to find women to work in soaps or a feeling that they were needed to connect with the audiences.

I

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Yes, but there did seem to be more involvement than in other forms of TV--I guess I should have said "relatively".  I was also thinking of radio soaps--the big forces there were women--Irna, Anne Hummert (OK, with her husband Frank ;) ) and Elaine Carrington.  Though it's true actual writers (and creators at the Hummert factory) were often men, Robert Harvey Andrews, Orin Tovrov etc.  Agnes Nixon has claimed in her memoirs that the daytime industry was much more welcoming to opportunities for women in writing and producing where they wouldn't have been considered in similar jobs in prime time.  But your point is fair

2 hours ago, Errol said:

 

It wasn't rushed. They asked me to provide clips when I was contacted in September because they were having trouble with some stubborn people at the networks and studios. I had to kindly tell them I couldn't help them since A) Soap Opera Network isn't, B.) has never been, and C) shouldn't be confused with, SOAPnet. What they could get looks bad by comparison, but when you see it knowing the hurdles they had to get through, I give them a pass on this one.

 

As for former soap watchers watching reality shows like "The Real Housewives" and "Keeping Up with the Kardashian," while I do not count myself among them, I can attest that it is A LOT.

Well your last comment is depressing ;) Maybe the soap fans I know who miss them are mostly older (ie outside the demos networks would care about) and they can't even follow those reality shows lol.

Thanks for some of that behind the scenes info!  So very bizarre that the studios were stingy with their footage (and, seemingly, would prefer that they use technically illegal Youtube footage??)

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Yes your right in comparing the situation to primetime in that era.

Were there any women in positions of importance on primetime in those days?

Loretta Young springs to mind as she (and hubby of course) were in charge of her show which was very popular for years.

Off topic - Loretta was always very underrated - she went freelance in 1940 in the heyday of the studio system but never gets credit whereas Stanwyck, Hepburn etc are always mentioned and lauded for bucking the system.

Anyway, fascinating topics to explore.

PS I couldn't bear to invest time in the 'reality' of RH.

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I remember when I was producing a YouTube series years ago, we tried to secure a very short (like 10 seconds) clip of the British reality series The Only Way Is Essex. They literally asked us for thousands of dollars, which would have been more than our entire budget for the video. 
 

 

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Does anybody remember a few years ago when The Daytime Emmys showed clips from their first ever televised show?  Those clips were lifted straight from YouTube.  I wondered why N.A.T.A.S. wouldn't have had a "clean" copy somewhere in their archives. Do they value the anything associated with daytime so little that they couldn't even bother to archive their old broadcasts of the ceremonies?

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19 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Are you Chris Van Etten? That's what he said on the show.

LOL...no, I'm not. But the story aired when I was going through the same thing. It's still amazing that they did the homophobia storyline in 1992. It was a huge umbrella story that most characters were involved in at some point. Now, there's many more lgbt+ characters on TV shows, but back then it was a risky move on the show's part. Michael Malone did such a great job crafting all the beats of that story.

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19 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

LOL...no, I'm not. But the story aired when I was going through the same thing. It's still amazing that they did the homophobia storyline in 1992. It was a huge umbrella story that most characters were involved in at some point. Now, there's many more lgbt+ characters on TV shows, but back then it was a risky move on the show's part. Michael Malone did such a great job crafting all the beats of that story.

I remember the furor thirtysomething’s gay bedroom scene caused just two years before. 
 


 

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On 5/20/2020 at 12:05 PM, DRW50 said:

 

He was Doug Donovan from about 83-85, I think. 

Then he went to OLTL and played a Bf of Tina, then played by Marsha Clark

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17 hours ago, GLATWT88 said:

As annoying as Andy can be, he is able to express himself well and in a way that can at times be inviting and draw you in. His specials on Bravo where he discusses his shows, their impact and how they (the show and castmembers) have evolved over the years is usually really nicely put together. He states he's a soap fan and I believe it and he has talked about soaps before, so I'm sure if asked the right questions, he could have a lot to say.

 

 

I'll give him credit... Andy convinced me he was a true old-school soap fan the first time actress Sarah Paulson was on his show, and he asked her who were celebrity crush was growing up in the 80's, and she said Brian Bloom, and he instantly said "Dusty Donovan from As the World Turns!" 

 

He was definitely a huge AMC fan, as well as knowledgeable about others (Y&R, GL, OLTL, DAYS

10 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Well your last comment is depressing ;) Maybe the soap fans I know who miss them are mostly older (ie outside the demos networks would care about) and they can't even follow those reality shows lol.

Thanks for some of that behind the scenes info!  So very bizarre that the studios were stingy with their footage (and, seemingly, would prefer that they use technically illegal Youtube footage??)

 

A lot of us here keep the "Bravo's Real Housewives of...." thread very active. Not sure of all our ages though :)

 

As someone else said, it's too bad retrospective shows like these don't bother making them crisp and clean like the CNN documentaries (Road to the White House, The 1960's/70's/80's/90's etc.), but then I guess to them, this will only air once whereas the CNN docs are repeated throughout the years. 

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8 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Does anybody remember a few years ago when The Daytime Emmys showed clips from their first ever televised show?  Those clips were lifted straight from YouTube.  I wondered why N.A.T.A.S. wouldn't have had a "clean" copy somewhere in their archives. Do they value the anything associated with daytime so little that they couldn't even bother to archive their old broadcasts of the ceremonies?

Oh I remember.  But, this just seems to be accepted practice now.  I would hardly expect the budget Daytime Emmys to have issue with this when higher profiles are doing the same.  Sadly

5 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I remember the furor thirtysomething’s gay bedroom scene caused just two years before. 
 


 

Great episode scripted by Richard Kramer (who went on to write the first Tales of the City series, some great novels, and was very generous when I asked to interview him for a project).

The rules were ridiculous--basically no touching, but they were allowed to have a cigarette which was a concession of sorts.  And a number of affiliates did not air the episode, it was pulled from reruns, sponsors pulled out (of course an actual *bed* scene was completely unheard of at the time and something daytime wouldn't do for a long time, despite some serious inroads in gay storylines in the 90s).

13 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Yes your right in comparing the situation to primetime in that era.

Were there any women in positions of importance on primetime in those days?

Loretta Young springs to mind as she (and hubby of course) were in charge of her show which was very popular for years.

Off topic - Loretta was always very underrated - she went freelance in 1940 in the heyday of the studio system but never gets credit whereas Stanwyck, Hepburn etc are always mentioned and lauded for bucking the system.

Anyway, fascinating topics to explore.

PS I couldn't bear to invest time in the 'reality' of RH.

What do you mean by the reality of RH? 😮

Great point about Loretta Young!  Lucille Ball probably should get mentioned for this too (even if hers was a partnership with Desi).

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2 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:Great point about Loretta Young!  Lucille Ball probably should get mentioned for this too (even if hers was a partnership with Desi).

If it wasn’t for Lucy, Star Trek would not exist!

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Which is pretty amazing!

On 5/21/2020 at 11:45 AM, Gray Bunny said:

 

A lot of us here keep the "Bravo's Real Housewives of...." thread very active. Not sure of all our ages though :)

 

 

Ha I've noticed ;) And gosh, I really don't mean to cast any shade on fans of them, and hate that my comment sounded like I was.  Just for myself, I don't see any of the things I love about daytime soaps in any of the shows.

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:56 PM, EricMontreal22 said:

Which is pretty amazing!

Ha I've noticed ;) And gosh, I really don't mean to cast any shade on fans of them, and hate that my comment sounded like I was.  Just for myself, I don't see any of the things I love about daytime soaps in any of the shows.

I meant to comment on this when you posted it.  I think the Housewives remind me more of what Dynasty kind of became in the middle period.  Women dressed to the nines trading barbed comments and throwing drinks and having cat fights with each other, while the men mostly looked on in judgement.

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1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

I meant to comment on this when you posted it.  I think the Housewives remind me more of what Dynasty kind of became in the middle period.  Women dressed to the nines trading barbed comments and throwing drinks and having cat fights with each other, while the men mostly looked on in judgement.

I can buy that lol

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