I've always loved that they did that too!

Y&R stated that Ashley & Olivia were friends since college and where in the same sorority at least as early as 1998.

Thank you. That's what I thought. It was a weird add-on considering Olivia came on the canvas in 1990 and, obviously, the Ashley character was on during that entire time. I consider that more bizarre than some of the examples above because the characters were very well known to each during that period.

Thank you. That's what I thought. It was a weird add-on considering Olivia came on the canvas in 1990 and, obviously, the Ashley character was on during that entire time. I consider that more bizarre than some of the examples above because the characters were very well known to each during that period.

You're welcome. If this wasn't introduced earlier, I think the show was just trying to find a convenient reason to bring Ashley and Olivia together so that Ashley could learn that Victoria is Olivia's patient, so they retconned/adjusted the backstory. Ashley and Olivia got together to discuss going to a reunion and the dialogue and the actors played it as if they used to have good times but hadn't necessarily kept in touch. So it fit. And, obviously, they weren't insta biffles but the friendship stuck and built over the years.

During the Bill Bell years of Y & R.. it seemed like characters never really interacted much.. they were all in storyline bubbles. I noticed that when Kay Alden took over, she had characters interact more with each other.

That has always been a myth. There were plenty of strong friendships and interactions. It's just that Y&R wasn't, say, ATWT. ATWT could have had Lisa walk into Tom & Margo's bedroom while they were having sex, chit chat while they ran into Kim and discussed Frannie's storyline, all while Tom and Margo went on, and I wouldn't really bat an eye. Also, due to Y&R's slower pace, it would be death to include tons of scenes with interactions because then it would take eight years to finish a story instead of just four. In a way, faster-paced soaps had to do a lot of it to generate material.

One thing I loved about Bill Bell's Y&R is that everyone didn't know each other. I didn't find it to be like they were in story bubbles in a negative way, but in a way that made sense. Each group of characters then had their own supporting and recurring characters to balance things out and they crossed paths with others due to friendships, jobs and when it was necessary. In reality everybody shouldn't know everybody. Victor didn't meet Michael until 1998 and it was a big deal for Michael meeting someone that big. It reminds me of Katherine running around with that "Free Kevin" shirt. She shouldn't even know or care about somebody like Kevin. Now it seems like everybody knows everyone and there is no real rhyme or reason to why anything happens. I miss those bubbles and how they intersected with everyone else.

Another good example of Bell's cross-populating would be the Barber-Winters and Abbott's. Of course Mamie was the Abbott maid and really a mother to Jack, Ashley and Traci. She was also a rival for Jill and confidant for John. Then they bring on her daughters and we learn Ashley and Olivia are best friends. Then due to the Mamie connection we had a Dru/John relationship. Due to that we got Dru in the mailroom where she met Neil, who worked for Jabot. It all felt organic and real. They created relationships and developed them. Everybody didn't have to be related to each other, but what connections they DID have were strong and their friendships helped flesh everything else out.

I wish somebody would study the way Bill Bell, Harding Lemay, Claire Labine and Agnes Nixon worked (depending on the type of soap they want to write) and take lessons from that to craft a modern show. Really the only one that I can say was obviously influenced by Bill Bell was James E. Reilly, which is probably why I've been enjoying watching Passions so much (I'm currently in Jan 2001). I'd love to get a chance to see his version of DAYS which also seemed to be influenced by Bell from what I've seen.

Perfect.

That has always been a myth. There were plenty of strong friendships and interactions. It's just that Y&R wasn't, say, ATWT. ATWT could have had Lisa walk into Tom & Margo's bedroom while they were having sex, chit chat while they ran into Kim and discussed Frannie's storyline, all while Tom and Margo went on, and I wouldn't really bat an eye. Also, due to Y&R's slower pace, it would be death to include tons of scenes with interactions because then it would take eight years to finish a story instead of just four. In a way, faster-paced soaps had to do a lot of it to generate material.

Perfect.

That's an excellent analysis. Though I remember in the late 80s - especially. You'd have long scenes of nothing - example: Jill storms into the mansion, slams the door, walks in the living screaming "Katherine!" cut to Katherine putting down her tea and giving Jill a long stare, back to Jill seething - commercial. There were a lot of scenes in an episode where nothing really happened. This was a huge contrast to ATWT where it always seemed alive with stuff happening in every scene with interaction between many characters - it felt much more like a community. I enjoyed both shows during that era - especially when they were back-to-back (ATWT moved for B&B after Capitol was axed).

Wasn't Donna Love introduced as a high school classmate of Rachel on Another World?

I thought it was Michael who had known Rachel in high school.

Re Y&R I recall that Katherine knew of the Abbott's when Jack came to her trying to stop Jill marrying John but was not close to them.

Later when Dina came along,it was established that she and Dina had been close friends earlier at the time Dina was having the affair with Brent.And then later John and Katherine talked about the early days of their friendship whan they were young.

So was there some rewriting going on??

I thought it was Michael who had known Rachel in high school.

Re Y&R I recall that Katherine knew of the Abbott's when Jack came to her trying to stop Jill marrying John but was not close to them.

Later when Dina came along,it was established that she and Dina had been close friends earlier at the time Dina was having the affair with Brent.And then later John and Katherine talked about the early days of their friendship whan they were young.

So was there some rewriting going on??

Re: Katherine and Abbotts - most definitely a new back history for Katherine. What made it kind of ridiculous was that Jill being so embedded with Katherine's life, certainly would've had some similar exposure to the family. Instead it was like Jill started working at Jabot. (The reality is that if Katherine was "so close" to John, she would've put the kabosh on Jill EVER getting a job there. Plus, John would've known all about the history with Jill and P2.)

Re: Katherine and Abbotts - most definitely a new back history for Katherine. What made it kind of ridiculous was that Jill being so embedded with Katherine's life, certainly would've had some similar exposure to the family. Instead it was like Jill started working at Jabot. (The reality is that if Katherine was "so close" to John, she would've put the kabosh on Jill EVER getting a job there. Plus, John would've known all about the history with Jill and P2.)

Yes, they rewrote that storyline to make Katherine & John Abbott school classmates. I think they also claimed Katherine went to school with Stuart Brooks and Earl & Allison Bancroft.

Bill Bell kept certain characters in storyline groupings, but seemed to like them all interact at some point with Katherine.

Speaking of John Abbott, I'm almost certain that before Ashley & Traci came on, he was talking about his girls and gave their names as Traci and Tiffany.

Yeah I forgot cause Anna came on after Luke left right?

Passions was always big on making everybody seem like they knew each other better then they really should have as well.

Honest mistake here by the poster, because that is the kind of thing shows do all the time. And maybe Anna and Luke come across like classic characters still interacting after all these years. But the show actually didn't do that. They did acknowledge Anna and Luke having never met back in the day.

The part of the scene I am talking about starts at 1:50

Edited August 30, 201411 yr by StevieM

The switch between John and Roman was handled incredibly badly, in a lot of different ways.

Roman immediately assumed John's rivalry with Victor. People forget just how long and deep the RoJohn/Victor rivalry ran. Abe once talked about RealRoman and Victor having a long history of going up against each other, when in fact they had very little history.

On RoJohn's end, when he was being held prisoner at Maison Blanche there was a calender on the wall that he had drawn up the last time he was there. It was written by John Black, as if that was his known name at the time. In actual fact, John Black was a name he picked off a sign at the midnight mission when he first arrived in Salem as the pawn. His face was in bandages, and he had no memory.

Drake went to TPTB to complain. He pointed this story out to them. They just laughed and said: "well, maybe it was a lie." Drake's comments years later, when recounting the story, was this: "That one hurt. It still does."

On RoJohn's end, when he was being held prisoner at Maison Blanche there was a calender on the wall that he had drawn up the last time he was there. It was written by John Black, as if that was his known name at the time. In actual fact, John Black was a name he picked off a sign at the midnight mission when he first arrived in Salem as the pawn. His face was in bandages, and he had no memory.

They could entire theses on the many continuity errors found within John Black's convoluted back stories. At this point, I am beginning to think the man is really one of Eugene Bradford's robots.

Talk about a convoluted character. He's the Pawn, John Black, Roman, Whatever Alamain, a priest, a jewel thief, dead, not quite John, and now, deadly boring.

I hate it when a new character arrives and it's mentioned that he or she knows an established character, so you wait for that to develop into some sort of story, and then.... nothing. AMC did that with Vanessa Bennett - she knew Adam Chandler from somewhere in the past, they talked to each other, it was established that they'd known each other, and then nothing. They barely interacted, and IDK that any explanation for their prior encounters was ever given.

Days did this with Sami and Madison. Such a waste cuz Madison could've known things about Sami we didn't.

Days did this with Sami and Madison. Such a waste cuz Madison could've known things about Sami we didn't.

or been an ex lover of Eric. They all went to grade school together in Colorado

Days did this with Sami and Madison. Such a waste cuz Madison could've known things about Sami we didn't.

or been an ex lover of Eric. They all went to grade school together in Colorado

Days did this with Sami and Madison. Such a waste cuz Madison could've known things about Sami we didn't.

or been an ex lover of Eric. They all went to grade school together in Colorado

I thought of another one from AMC - in 2004 during Erica's intervention, Erica's half-brother Mark acted as if he'd never laid eyes on Kendall. Mark attended Mona's funeral almost exactly 10 years prior to that though, and he knew exactly who Kendall was when she walked into the visitation. Granted, I don't think Mark and Kendall really interacted much in 1994, but it was still a little strange that he acted as if he'd never met her in 2004.