Y&R: The characterization of Victor Newman

[ER Tosh]

Someone (Carl I think) posted that he feels that the characterization of Victor Newman has changed over the years since Bill Bell Sr. stopped working on the show in the years before his death. Do you think this is true? Was Victor once a more multifaceted character instead of what he is today? And by that I mean a jerk/bully who does something horrible and then is forgiven by half the town a month later.

[DRW50]

Bell's Victor was still a control freak and judgmental (albeit with some moments of tenderness), but people were allowed to stand up to him and he wasn't written as always right and just.

The first time I knew the show had lost all track of Victor was that embarrassing parade of Victor's Women with Julia and Lorie, all of whom still loved him and wanted him, which went against years of history just for an ego trip. And it just got worse and worse over time.

I don't watch the show that much now so I'm not sure what JFP/Griffith/Altman/etc. are/were doing with the character.

[ER Tosh]

I have also heard that he was a bit more likeable when Douglas was around.

[NothinButAttitude]

IMO, the character has changed from when I started watching, the 90s, to now. Victor had a heart. Yes, schemed against Jack and Brad others, but he was a decent man to his family; he did interfere in their love lives like he still remains too, but overtime, he'd back off. Nowadays, that isn't the case. Victor, thanks to MAB, has become a crotchety, old, curmudgeon that lacks a heart or conscious. Case in point, Sharon & Victor's relationship--one that was loved by the fans because of their father/daughter-like closeness. Victor always deeply cared for her BUT not enough to marry her, drive her further insane, and get someone to try and tamper with her medication. Victor was a man with demons but even he had boundaries--something the writers now fail to acknowledge.

[ER Tosh]

I guess a good analogy would be Phil Mitchell on Eastenders. From what people say (and from clips I am have seen on youtube) Phil in the 90’s was a much more multifaceted (and nicer) character. When in recent years he seems just like a pushing-50 angry bully.

[Aback]

Simply put, it's a complex character and no one knows how to write for him. In the last decade, he's become a cartoonish, invincible, heartless villain. And to think there was a time I used to root for him. But Victor's character assassination should come as no surprise. If you think about it, the writing for every character has watered down since the early '00s. Michael, Phyllis, Sharon, Jill, even Kay... I cannot think of any vet where current TPTB took their time to study the character and understand what made them tick. They preferred turning them into the shadow of what they once were. So there you have it in a nutshell IMO.

[ajsp35801]

I agree with whoever said that the perfect example of not understanding Victor was when they had him sleeping with and married to Sharon. He would gave never done that to Nick. He cared about Sharon like a father and was always kind to her. Victor did have a heart and knew when to sit back and let the chips fall where they may. Especially with his kids love lives. Don't get me wrong, he was always proven right in the end but he didn't go about making that happen. He would have never had a pregnant Victoria arrested and thrown in jail to keep her from marrying Billy. Never.

[NothinButAttitude]

Victor would've never tossed Diane out the back of an ambulance IMO either. Even though he and Diane were on bad terms, I could've never pictured the Victor I once loved putting his hands on a woman he once loved and shoving her. That scene for me was extremely disturbing.

Other things Victor wouldn't've done that he's done in recent years:

Turn his back on his god-daughter, Colleen. How cruel Victor was to her was just gross.

It was OOC for Victor to unleash an unbalanced Patti on Jack, regardless their rivalry. And I don't see him using Paul's , who was a good friend to him, sister to do that.

[ER Tosh]

Plus he hired Chelsea to drug and rape Billy then had Billy arrested. and tried to keep Billy away from Delia when she had cancer. What a great dude. And looking back that seems even worse since her death..

[ER Tosh]

Not even going to talk about the time he tried to frame Adam for Skyes's murder and then Skye died in a freaking volcano!! That ended up with Victor letting Sharon go on trail (And Victor still cared about her at this point!!)

[ER Tosh]

I think back in the old days Victor and Jack were about on the same level of doing underhanded actions. But since like the end of 2008 Victor has done shitty after shitty thing and Jack just sits in his living room acting emo and talking to his ghost dad whenever Jack accidentally litters or something.

[Ponds]

They made him more evil when Adam came on to the scene. I always loved the character, but can't find a redeeming thing about him now.

[ER Tosh]

I don't know how Paul does not hit Victor in the face every time he seems him.'

[YRBB]

Great thread!

Yes, Victor has changed a lot. The first, more subtle, change occurred sometime after Kay Alden took over. She was a great headwriter but was way too fond of Victor to be completely objective with him. It was what led to the sperm storyline. Victor continued to be multi-faceted & complex, however. He had ego-maniacal explosions but he also had great moments of tenderness, respect and understanding. In short, they kept the various dynamics he had with the various people in his life.

Like Carl mentioned, around the time all his exes came back and he was about to remarry Nikki, things started becoming ridiculous. It was insane how he lost the bribery case and yet still managed to come on top. By that point, Eric Braeden's portrayal itself had became much less complex and layered as well. He was happy to walk into scene, do that fixing-his-hair thing, yell, point his finger, say "you got that" and leave.

Of course, all of this was wonderful in comparison to what came afterwards. Once LML took over, pretty much everyone was being written OOC & OTT. It was like one characteristic of Victor's was adopted and blown up to extreme proportions, all the time. And then MAB came with her Sabrina wuvfest and the degradation of Nikki and Victor's constant need to stop being bad and become truly evil instead.

Seeing the horrible things Victor has done in the past few years listed in here just shows how truly horrible the situation was/is. Even when he HATED Diane with all his guts he never once laid a hand on her back in the late 90s/00s. He was even able to admit at some point that he had mistreated her and that he understood why she was upset with him. Mistreat Sharon? He was always on her side! Unleash a psycho? He wouldn't even deign, especially since Nikki was almost killed by one. He was always there for his family and always willing to do anything to help them. And instead he almost let the mother of his grandkids go to jail? But, that's what bad writing does. He was seen as a convenient plot device to have drama inflicted on others.

And, now, where it seems they've toned down the COMPLETELY out of character moments, he walks around calling Chelsea a slut and whore. Wow. Victor was always threatening and, if he didn't like you, he made it known, but he also had class. All we get now is perpetually grumpy Victor (and Braeden's harsh face compounds the issue) who walks around insulting most women he sees. I actually get pissed off when I see him now. I still think he can come back from the abyss but I just cannot stand this cliche, one-dimensional horrid version of Victor.

[YRfan23]

Bill Bell knew how to write Victor, Kay Alden Knew how to write Victor....the others really screwed the character up by having a once complexed anti-hero become a grumpy old bully.....(Just as Brad Bell did with Stephanie in later B&B years)

As much as we want to blame Braeden for letting the writers do all this damage to the character, I don't think it's ever been entirely his fault. I'm over whether or not he likes having the last word in his script of whatever, but I feel like from what he has said in interviews it's really hard to get the current writers to stay true to characterization, especially if he's at the point where he only wants to keep his job and is too "lazy" to make demands on where to take Victor....