28 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

What particular events would you say marked that 2003 decline?

Speaking of the early 00s, from rewatching 2002 Sonny was juggling a lot of storylines! His and Carly's presume deaths, Alexis' pregnancy, and Brenda's return.

Mostly the Kelly Monaco push.  And the obvious pivot from Guza thinking Vanessa was going to re-sign so there was a lot of scrambling to figure things out.

On 8/3/2024 at 6:45 PM, carolineg said:

I can only find part of it, but Jason keeps shutting her down and she runs away crying.

The comments are reminding me of how hated Courtney was. Just despised. I remember when she decided to jump into freezing cold water while pregnant and fans tore her apart. 

ALW looks a lot like Laura Wright here. I guess it explains Jax/Carly.

It was still good television, there was just a sense that it wasn’t going anywhere. They had amazing stories for two years, then it kind of slows down except for the Stone story. Everything else was resolved so that story took center stage while everything else went into a holding pattern instead of also beginning new stories.

Guza comes in hot with Carly (MVJ says that was his, not Labine), moves Jax to Brenda, Jason/Robin,  puts Laura on trial for killing Damian, Lily is pregnant and Sonny breaks Brenda’s heart again, clink/boom, and Lulu’s bone marrow transplant reintroduced the Cassadines and Laura’s secret son Nikolas. This was in like six months and it was great soap. The pace was quick but they still wrote all the quiet character scenes they had been doing, didn’t skip over details, and the emotional stakes were always high.

I loved Labine, but she really regressed Laura. I got her point of view with her being over the danger, but Laura was a capable partner to Luke on the older adventures, not just a damsel in distress. The constant wringing her hands over danger felt like a waste. Guza knew how to write for Laura, and IMO the show was better for the fact that the Spencer stories revolved around her for those few months instead of Luke.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Mostly the Kelly Monaco push.  And the obvious pivot from Guza thinking Vanessa was going to re-sign so there was a lot of scrambling to figure things out.

We are not that far away at that point from Sonny shooting Carly in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan, which I felt was a low period for the show.

I must’ve been the only one in the world that loved Courtney.. makes me upset how people hate her  

5 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It was still good television, there was just a sense that it wasn’t going anywhere. They had amazing stories for two years, then it kind of slows down except for the Stone story. Everything else was resolved so that story took center stage while everything else went into a holding pattern instead of also beginning new stories.

Guza comes in hot with Carly (MVJ says that was his, not Labine), moves Jax to Brenda, Jason/Robin,  puts Laura on trial for killing Damian, Lily is pregnant and Sonny breaks Brenda’s heart again, clink/boom, and Lulu’s bone marrow transplant reintroduced the Cassadines and Laura’s secret son Nikolas. This was in like six months and it was great soap. The pace was quick but they still wrote all the quiet character scenes they had been doing, didn’t skip over details, and the emotional stakes were always high.

I loved Labine, but she really regressed Laura. I got her point of view with her being over the danger, but Laura was a capable partner to Luke on the older adventures, not just a damsel in distress. The constant wringing her hands over danger felt like a waste. Guza knew how to write for Laura, and IMO the show was better for the fact that the Spencer stories revolved around her for those few months instead of Luke.

We are not that far away at that point from Sonny shooting Carly in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan, which I felt was a low period for the show.

Got it. Because 96 was a mix for both of them I'm always not too sure who wrote what between Labine and Guza.

Looking back, 1996 it was a pivotal year as it laid the groundwork for the Sonny/Carly/Jason show we have today.

What was your take on the Bill Levinson era vs Labine?

1 hour ago, Planet Soap said:

What was your take on the Bill Levinson era vs Labine?

Complicated. What worked for me was the more grounded take on storytelling as Riche moved the show away from the Monty tone that had been there even when Gloria was not EP.

Felicia was one of my favorite characters so the Ryan story really drew me in. Pairing her with Mac worked better than all the other attempts for him. Scotty/Dom/Lucy was such an excellent way to give Scotty and Lucy depth. Karen/Jagger/Jason/Brenda was what really drew me in, I loved that teen scene.

Levinson also was sleazy. Karen stripping being an example. The way they tried to make Brenda a vixen didn’t work for Marcil, and her playing against type where she could saved that character from cliche.

Labine brought much needed heart and better storytelling chops to the show. Her team managed to execute what Richie was trying to do. Even a filler Labine episode had a sense of community and emotion.

Labine had never done an hour show, so her version was a hybrid. That’s why the scenes were longer, filled with lots of character defining dialogue. Everything had more intelligence, and the characters all had emotional depth (a couple of duds to be sure, Katherine wasn’t really a great character, nor was Miguel). To me Labine is as important to the future of the show as Monty/Marland/Pat Falken Smith were from 78-81, she just did it in less time.

8 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It was still good television, there was just a sense that it wasn’t going anywhere. They had amazing stories for two years, then it kind of slows down except for the Stone story. Everything else was resolved so that story took center stage while everything else went into a holding pattern instead of also beginning new stories.

Guza comes in hot with Carly (MVJ says that was his, not Labine), moves Jax to Brenda, Jason/Robin,  puts Laura on trial for killing Damian, Lily is pregnant and Sonny breaks Brenda’s heart again, clink/boom, and Lulu’s bone marrow transplant reintroduced the Cassadines and Laura’s secret son Nikolas. This was in like six months and it was great soap. The pace was quick but they still wrote all the quiet character scenes they had been doing, didn’t skip over details, and the emotional stakes were always high.

I loved Labine, but she really regressed Laura. I got her point of view with her being over the danger, but Laura was a capable partner to Luke on the older adventures, not just a damsel in distress. The constant wringing her hands over danger felt like a waste. Guza knew how to write for Laura, and IMO the show was better for the fact that the Spencer stories revolved around her for those few months instead of Luke.

We are not that far away at that point from Sonny shooting Carly in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan, which I felt was a low period for the show.

Agree with everything you said about Guza.

I never thought about Labine regressing Laura.  I always thought her pushback with Luke's antics made sense given where she was in life.  Finally getting her house, finally able to stop running, Lucky growing up, getting pregnant with Lulu, etc-Luke was always just about to ruin that stability.  I wasn't terribly familiar with Luke/Laura's 80's story back then, so maybe a re-watch of it now I would have a different opinion.

I find the show starts going off the rails before Sonny shooting Carly, but that is a really dark period for the show.  I know people praise the Panic Room story, but I find Ric just an awful, gross character-and I enjoyed early Liric so I was giving the guy a chance.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I find the show starts going off the rails before Sonny shooting Carly, but that is a really dark period for the show.  I know people praise the Panic Room story, but I find Ric just an awful, gross character-and I enjoyed early Liric so I was giving the guy a chance.

Oh it’s a mess before that. I just remember that being, as you said, a particularly dark time. And I enjoyed the Panic Room and also think it was trashy and all spectacle. But that’s kind of what I felt for that period on the show. Everything was very trashy.

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Oh it’s a mess before that. I just remember that being, as you said, a particularly dark time. And I enjoyed the Panic Room and also think it was trashy and all spectacle. But that’s kind of what I felt for that period on the show. Everything was very trashy.

Loved the panic room. I still dont get how Ric came back from that and became DA.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Oh it’s a mess before that. I just remember that being, as you said, a particularly dark time. And I enjoyed the Panic Room and also think it was trashy and all spectacle. But that’s kind of what I felt for that period on the show. Everything was very trashy.

Honestly, thinking about it the show was pretty dark for the rest of the 2000's lol.  I think Guza was still taking him very seriously in 2003, but by summer of 2006 he just gave up and embraced all the trashiness.  That Summer of Sleaze was really *peak* GH trash, but I am not going to lie, I enjoyed some parts of it lol.

I reached September 1981…

Luke/Laura/Robert in that jungle is so boring. Like SOOOO boring. But Tiffany and Robert saved it for me. And Mikkos taking over. I’ve reached Robert entering downstairs!

We lost Tony Cassadine and Alexandria Quartermaine. I swear to god. She joined in Nov 80 and appeared between 135-137 episodes until September! But her last month she got backburned what really dissapointed me. But I did enjoy her tragic love story with Tony who was even willing to see if she’s right about Mikkos being evil.
Robert got caught by Mikkos 

What really carried that story were Robert and Tiffany and mikkos great acting and the side characters like Noel, Maximilian, Victor and Corinne! I wish they would’ve kept Corinne on.

what I really hate about 1981 is Noah Drake and his pressuring methods to get Bobbie into bed. I know Bobbie might be a bit too obsessed with her brother but who wouldn’t be? It’s the 2nd summer where Luke has been missing for months and might be dead. If it was my brother or sister I would be more than worried sick. Can’t believe they all act like she is overreacting. 
That’s why I don’t like Noah. Yeah he did try to give her the time and space but every girl that walked by got flirted on  

that boring Hutch story finally got exciting and I’m in the final weeks of his run? Are u kidding me? NOW it’s getting interesting after boring us with his jail scenes for months ? A love story with rose ? Socially beloved by the GH gang and stuff ? WTH? If they would’ve spent more time developing rose and hutch it would’ve such a banger storyline. But I do think the story got more exiting now.

Joe and Heather. Gosh I love them two. He did got the gun and we could finally see the re-written storyline play out. It was definitely Heather. But I’m glad she wasn’t it lol 

Sarah who became more confident and finally stood up at her and even handed the gun over to Joe was one of my favorite moments of 1981 with Heather and Alice conversation and Alice blaming her own daughter for driving her father away. What mother does that? But it was great TV.

I know LnL are the pop culture phenomenon but they didn’t carried summer 81 for me if I am being honest lol 

Edited August 6, 20241 yr by AMCOLTLLover

23 hours ago, carolineg said:

I never thought about Labine regressing Laura.  I always thought her pushback with Luke's antics made sense given where she was in life.  Finally getting her house, finally able to stop running, Lucky growing up, getting pregnant with Lulu, etc-Luke was always just about to ruin that stability.

I just think Laura was more complicated than Labine wrote her to be. I thought her desires to be home in Port Charles and settled were better executed in the first year or so of their return.

I think a huge part of my problem is how they chose to handle Genie having two kids during their run. By the time they got to her second child they had really made Laura into a handwringing damsel in distress. She spent months basically only talking about Luke’s obsession with danger. And I assume due to her first-in shooting schedule they also isolated her, she barely left her house.

 

48 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I just think Laura was more complicated than Labine wrote her to be. I thought her desires to be home in Port Charles and settled were better executed in the first year or so of their return.

I think a huge part of my problem is how they chose to handle Genie having two kids during their run. By the time they got to her second child they had really made Laura into a handwringing damsel in distress. She spent months basically only talking about Luke’s obsession with danger. And I assume due to her first-in shooting schedule they also isolated her, she barely left her house.

 

I can see what you are saying.  I took a few peeks at scenes from Laura in that era and she was always talking about Luke's need for danger and excitement.  I do get it because Luke was always doing stupid things.  I think this is where the narrative begins that Laura tried to "tame" him or whatever.

I wonder if Labine just didn't like writing for Luke and Laura (or mostly Laura).  They aren't exactly the type of character or couple that Labine excels at and she tried to mold them more into what she wanted more than what made sense.   I can only imagine their schedules were a bit of a nightmare for writers as well.   Labine seemed to do better for Tony/Luke, but Laura was often left behind.

I think I just understood Laura's annoyance and worry because Luke was always doing obnoxious things he didn't need to.

12 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I wonder if Labine just didn't like writing for Luke and Laura (or mostly Laura).  They aren't exactly the type of character or couple that Labine excels at and she tried to mold them more into what she wanted more than what made sense.   I can only imagine their schedules were a bit of a nightmare for writers as well.   Labine seemed to do better for Tony/Luke, but Laura was often left behind.

In her We Love Soaps interview she says she centered the show around them, and you can see that. Pretty much every character hub was connected to them even if they were not directly involved in a given story. Especially when the Wards arrive, that really ties them to the Q’s.

Labine grew Laura up, their first year back on the show kind of cemented her having a big heart and being deeply involved in her community. I think losing Mary Mae and her maternity leaves are what derailed them doing more beyond that initial characterization. Luke was allowed to be more in the mix.

 

14 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

In her We Love Soaps interview she says she centered the show around them, and you can see that. Pretty much every character hub was connected to them even if they were not directly involved in a given story. Especially when the Wards arrive, that really ties them to the Q’s.

Labine grew Laura up, their first year back on the show kind of cemented her having a big heart and being deeply involved in her community. I think losing Mary Mae and her maternity leaves are what derailed them doing more beyond that initial characterization. Luke was allowed to be more in the mix.

 

Now that you mention that article I absolutely remember Claire saying that lol.  I think in my mind I might have been confusing Tony's disdain with her characterization of Luke for her own perhaps?  I don't know lol. 

I am sure the maternity leaves/scheduling was probably the main issue for Laura.  

Since most of my re-watching is through Sonny/Brenda edits Luke just seems to have so much more to do.  I would have to really watch Luke/Laura edits to judge again.  I have a hard time remembering what Laura did before Nik arrived besides the Ward House/Damian Smith murder.