GH: Classic Thread

[Vee]

I think it was primarily Steve's laziness. He was largely on cruise control after he returned having failed to conquer Hollywood. I mentioned this on another forum recently too; you're absolutely right. I rewatched '96, etc. stuff recently and Jason was different.

[Vee]

I was watching the bibs and bobs of stuff available from Ryan and Felicia's cabin showdown in November '92. They are real lucky nobody was paying attention to the soaps because this creepy "Tubular Bells" ripoff theme they're using for this story is right on the line of copyright infringement lol. But there's a lot of good music throughout, and I think some familiar cues are lifted actually from films but I'm not sure which, and I usually have a good ear for those (Loving reused the sinister score from Jennifer Eight often throughout the '90s). Anyway, it's great stuff, well-performed and very well-directed (esp the shot of the firelit silhouettes as Felicia starts stabbing away at Ryan). I really wish more of the full episodes were available - the full ones I can find stop right as it's getting warmed up and just as Cheryl Stansbury's will has been viewed, which is quite a story to peek at as well. I've seen some of the fallout with the custody battle before but not enough. That whole Cheryl, Robert, Julian Jerome, etc. mess has never made much sense to me, or how they seemed to go from her to Robert with another woman (Katherine Delafield?) in random succession and both got swiftly flushed.

Edited March 7 by Vee

[dc11786]

Thanks for the clarification. I could have sworn I heard Jagger talk about running away from his step-father but I watch things out of order so I wouldn't even know if its something I heard (or misheard) in 1992 or 1993. 

If Bill Levinson had stayed, I wonder if they would have made a greater push to keep Gina around. It wouldn't have hurt the show to have another younger female character as I don't recall Jason having much relationship wise at the time. A Gina / Jason pairing seems like a source for a lot of tension for Jagger and Karen without there being another triangle. 

I definitely agree with this statement about characters just in their feelings. I find early Riche/pre-Labine very strong and I am a very big fan of the work of Claire Labine. I think there is just a sense of rich humanity because the characters are constantly allowed to feel things and discuss those feelings which leads to such rich character connections across the canvas. This connectivity allows even little moments to stand out. I was watching something from August, 1993, and there is a birthday party for someone (Lucas, I believe) and Tiffany arrives seeing Lucas after having miscarried her and Sean's baby the month earlier and it just is so tense and breaks your heart in the same moment. 

I had to teach Phineas Gage to my middle schoolers one year. It is the real life story of a man in the 19th century who had a railroad spike go through his skull. Gage lived and became a completely different person. I imagine this case, or similar cases, was the original origin of the story, but it's a shame it went so south. 

I'm glad you found 1992. It's a very quiet year, but there is some real beauty in it in the pieces I've caught. Your conversation from the "Loving" thread definitely had me listening to the cues. Some of the cues from "General Hospital" are definitely recycled later on "Loving." So there is problem some connection there. Wendy Riche's general Kenny G atmosphere feels very authentic to the period it was produced in. I feel very at home in 1992-1993 in a way I don't in other material. 

The sequences that are online involving Cheryl's death are quite compelling in October, 1992. Tiffany takes on so much of that process of caring for Lucas, and her parents, and arranging the funeral and everything else that I can see how we get to Tiffany taking those drinks in March, 1993, and ending up attempting suicide by July, 1993. I know @carolineg has made some strong arguments about why Tiffany's descent into alcoholism was wrong for the character, and I admire her thoughts on the subject. Seeing this piece though, I really think it was a well done story with my only real complaint (other than Levinson's misogynist leanings in different parts of the custody battle) is that we never got to see Tiffany's rise from the ashes.  

If anyone is interestested.

 

Regarding the Robert / Cheryl / Julian / Katherine merry go round is definitely messy and I haven't completely unpacked it. I know Robert and Cheryl are a thing during the Writers' Strike in 1988 so I imagine they were probably set up by Ann Marcus. I believe Pat Falken Smith arrives in late 1988/early 1989 and torpedoes Cheryl/Robert in favor of Robert/Katherine. I think Cheryl may have been too demure for Robert/Tristan Rogers, though she grew immensely from what I've seen from her year on "The Catlins." Some of Cheryl's financial dealings were fraudulent. 

Edie Lehmann definitely has more spunk and personality, but the character is a hard fit. The orphaned pianist with money doesn't really fit in with the spy set, but I do think that was intentional. Katherine is an outsider looking in, but that isn't always the most compelling position to be in on a soap and not be fighting to get into the inner circle. Truthfully, she would have played better in the Quartermaine world probably in some sort of romantic situation with Larry or Ned Ashton and cozying up to Lila while infuriating Tracy with every move. 

Then you throw in the baby and all hell starts to break loose. It is Wes Kenney and Pat Falken Smith who dump Cheryl. Then Palumbo and Kenney bring Cheryl back for like 2 months in 1989 (summer) to have Cheryl have her baby, the baby is stolen by baby brokers, Cheryl mourns, and then leaves town with Bobbie ending up with the child. In 1989, I believe the story is Julian Jerome is the father, but Cheryl is claiming the baby is Robert's to keep Julian away from her kid.  

Palumbo and Joe Hardy start laying the groundwork for Cheryl's return in April-May, 1990 when Lucas gets sick and is diagnosed with diabetes. This sets up the need to revisit Lucas' parentage. Now, Jackie Zeman gets pregnant in 1990 so I'm not sure if her pregnancy delayed Cheryl's return because Cheryl's not back until late September when Bobbie is off canvas with Zeman taking her maternity leave. Now that Cheryl's back, the set up is clearly for Robert to be the father. Julian's death in March, 1990, may have also played a role in this change, but there was just more story to mine from Robert as the baby's father though Lucas would also be the heir to the Jerome diamonds that Lucy expected to build her fortune around. 

At some point in 1990, Palumbo and Hardy seem to realize Katherine and Robert don't have a lot of story to tell together, and, more importantly, Katherine is not compelling stand alone which she would need to be given Robert's presence in the crime/adventure stories. An emotionally unwell Cheryl with Robert's son being raised by Frisco's brother and sister-in-law while Anna is dating the Jerome heir (imposter) just seems ripe for story to be told. Katherine could be present, but she would feel added on especially now that her chem test partner Colton is setting up house with Carla Greco. 

Katherine's departure (and Harrison Davis) precipitates the blood blath that Gloria Monty opens her December, 1990- late January/early February 1992 run, but even if Lehmann hadn't been fired by Hardy, Monty would have disposed of her in short order.  

[carolineg]

You know, Jagger absolutely could have said that.  He may have had an abusive stepfather, but I don't believe the stepfather would have been the biological father to any of the children.  I can't recall any of Jagger's backstory about why the were left alone.  I would just take a guess and think maybe his bio father left, his mother remarried, and the stepfather somehow convinced the mom to abandon the children.  

There is an early Jagger/Karen playlist, so I might dip into that.  I just find Jagger/Karen quite snoozy lol.

Gina was an interesting character to introduce and it's strange they didn't do more with her, but I was under the impression she was quite a bit younger than Jason/Brenda/Jagger/Karen.  Possibly younger than Robin because from my understanding Stone was a year older than Robin and Gina was the youngest so she would have to be Robin's age or younger.  It might have been a bit icky for Jason to date her at the time even though Nikki Cox looked pretty mature.  I still think it would have been a decent idea to keep her around though.  At that particular time I don't feel like the show had much investment in Jason at all.

I will take a look at the Tiffany/Cheryl clips, so thanks for those.  I do think it's a compelling story just not where I would have taken the character.  You hit the nail on the head in saying we never saw Tiffany's triumphant rise back.

[carolineg]

So I actually did start the Karen/Jagger playlist.  I probably got 2-3 months into both their arrivals.  It's pretty good.  Things I have learned so far-

• Unfortunately, @Khan, Jagger was not nicknamed after Mick Jagger.  Tony does ask and Jagger says, "no, it's just Jagger".  The mystery continues...
• Robin had a best friend Jody and Jason had a best friend Carl.  They appear quite a bit during the teen crisis hotline stuff, but disappear?  I don't recall them ever existing.
• KMc is absolutely one of the most natural teenager actors GH has ever had (along with JJ).  She is adorable, dorky, and so realistic even when she trying to flirt with Jason, having no chance.
• Bill Eckert hates Jagger like a lot. He berates Ruby for hiring him.  A few videos later Jagger is working for him.  Either some scenes didn't make it into the playlist or the writing for Bill is that chaotic.
• Nikki Langton (sp?) likes to hang out at Kelly's and get verbally abused by everyone for some reason.  There were a few scenes with Jagger where I thought they might have been testing them, but obviously that didn't happen.
• Rhonda Wexler is currently the most ridiculous caricature of a drunk, partying mom.  She drinks from the bottle in the morning, parties it up with strange men midday, hits on Jagger, dresses inappropriately, and crashes Dylan's christening.  She gets more layers later on, but boy is she just over the top now
• Karen and Jagger like/"hate" each other from Day 1.  For some reason I thought she met Jagger after she was dating Jason, but Karen/Jagger pretty much are the obvious goal from the moment they both appear.

I am only going to watch until I figure out the Jagger/Stone/Family dynamics and then probably stop unless I find it really compelling, but I'll keep sharing my thoughts.

[Khan]

He just doesn't want to admit it (on account of his being a Beatles fan). 

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[titan1978]

Rhonda Wexler is one of the most annoying characters of all time on GH. But I still think it makes sense and her strange combo of overprotective and also negligent resonates, I’ve known many people just like her.

[carolineg]

I can't say I hate Rhonda, but mostly because I like to watch Karen flail out of room sobbing lol.  Her introduction so far has been every stereotype about a struggling, poor, trashy, drunk single mom that she doesn't even seem like a human.  

The set up is mostly pretty good with Jason/Karen/Jagger.  I can see why they needed to add Brenda in because Robin is just way too young to fully be in the mix and everyone is mostly good here.  I can say I am at least pleasantly surprised watching because I thought it all would be very boring until Brenda arrived.  It's not too bad and it's weird to see Steve Burton before he got his ears pinned back lol.

[dc11786]

Glad you are getting into this. I am going to hunt down 1992 as it's the one year that's missing from my lot of episodes (besides a few months from 1989) because I am also curious. 

From what I remember in the March-April 1992 episodes I watched, it felt that Robin's feelings for Jason were where the audience sympathy was suppose to lie and that Karen was meant to be a hurdle. Karen and Jagger are both introduced when the show has no head writer credited and Riche has made it clear she was heavy in developing the characters. Karen is rough on around the edges and I don't see Burton's Jason taming her. 

Ruby talks Bill into hiring Jagger on June 2, 1992, according to the summaries on curlyq's website. I'm not sure if it is flat out said, but I assume that they felt Ruby might have felt something for Jagger as he was a sorta Luke type (loner, family baggage, working class). He is hired to work on the Outback renovations so it might have been short term work. 

Nikki lives in the apartments above Kelly's and was a pariah for suing Monica and GH for her father's death. Nikki was a fairly damaged young woman who had deep psychological issues. During the malpractice fire, it was revealed that David believed she had purposely torched the family home when she was younger with the intention of killing her own mother; she succeeded. Nikki was chemistry tested with Eric Simpson as well. In some ways, Nikki is succeeded by Brenda in the young schemer role as they only have a brief overlap. 

I really like Rhonda and Alan's relationship in 1993, but in the small pieces of Rhonda in 1992 I've seen, she seems like a lot. 

[carolineg]

I felt Robin/Jason was supposed to be a young crush that actually slow burned once she grew up and finally got the guy she wanted for so long.  It was in people's mind, but put away until Robin grew up and had some experience.  I am not sure if Karen was supposed to be an interloper or not.  I honestly think KMc just probably looked way too young at the time to be paired with Steve Burton.  

Karen was just always so morose and Jason was so upbeat.  I don't blame Karen for her attitude, but she wasn't even that nice to Jason lol.  I don't even know what Jason Q saw in her.

I must have missed that episode or it wasn't included lol.  I just thought it was such a shift for Bill, but it did really seem like temp work.  I have seen him working once for Bill and not again.

 

Yes, I noticed Nikki lived upstairs, but everyone from Ruby to Jagger to Karen are openly hostile with her and calling her names and dropping food on her.  Why would she want to live there?  I can understand the Brenda comparisons because it really did seem like the show was thinking about her and Jagger from what little I've seen.  Not enough data yet to tell if they have chemistry, but I don't know how much longer she's going to be around.

I remember tolerating Rhonda overall, but her intro is just so ridiculous.  Wearing boas and skin tight dresses to the Q's and trying to smoke a cigarette inside?  It's just a lot of flash with no substance behind it because poor, poor Karen. 

[Vee]

A model Guza and co. emulated with Nikolas and Emily, though sadly not with the original performer.

Edited March 9 by Vee

[carolineg]

So I have gotten to the Stone/Jagger/Gina backstory.  I will insert a clip.  It happens when Jagger/Jason/Karen are stranded on that island.

Basically Jagger was 14 and Stone/Gina were looking like kids-much younger.  The mother leaves them for someone named Lenny.  And is all you are a man now Jagger because 14 year old Jagger was played by ASJ perhaps?  His name was currently Jagger at the time so I guess he got it on the playground or something?  CPS or something like that took the kids away because Jagger wasn't watching them when he was working all night which all in all seems fair.

Jason/Karen/Jagger also kill a man which I entirely forgot about lol. I can't remember if this guy stays dead.  I want to say he ends up alive. This island story is so silly, but fun.

 

Edited March 9 by carolineg

[Vee]

Lord! I think the island episodes are also on YT in full but I could be wrong. I've meant to watch them. What month?

[carolineg]

This is just a Karen/Jagger playlist.  The clip I linked above has all the videos, but I have no idea what month.  I would say August of 92 because they celebrated 4th of July fairly recently and it appears to be still summer, but not sure.  Brenda first appears on Sept 18th of that year and I haven't seen her yet so it's between late July and early September because Karen/Jason are back at the hotline now.

Edited March 9 by carolineg

[Vee]

I had a look. It's late July and several eps of it at least are on Addie's playlist.