GH: Classic Thread

[dc11786]

Levinson's writing is fascinating (not always in a good way) because there is such a seediness to some of the stories that is such a stark contrast to the rich, inner lives of the characters. I don't think they could prove it was Brenda, but everyone knew it was her. Similarly, when Brenda doctored Karen's essay so she ended up being accused of plagiarism, which cost her her scholarships, Brenda was never proven fully guilty. Again, everyone knew it was her. 

I haven't gotten to much of late 1993 in my viewing or much of 1994, but I think something that I appreciated about pre-Labine Riche era is that there is no huge mob/crime presence in the traditional sense. You have Dr. Ryan Chamberlain, who's story has a beginning, middle, and end. You have suave deranged businessmen like Simon Romero and Richard Halifax. No one stayed around longterm. I am not sure if Sonny and Luke really enhanced the canvas. I like watching Laura especially with Mary Mae, but the Sonny/Luke stuff in 1995 takes up such a huge part of the canvas that I would rather see devoted to others. I think the show needed some excitement, but I wonder what a mob free Labine "General Hospital" could have looked like. 

[carolineg]

Everyone knew it was Brenda and the audience absolutely did, but it always just lingered there.  She strongly protested her innocence (badly), but no one ever even tried to prove it.  It's a really strange character trajectory because she never paid for these crimes and just moved into heroine status because Jagger dumped her and she made up with Karen.

I am not arguing it because I was team Brenda from the moment Vanessa first appeared on screen, but it is a little wonky the way it played out.

I still don't think Levinson had any idea what to do with Brenda besides hot rich girl that hooks up with hot poor boy.

[Toups]

Were Gene O'Neill & Noreen Tobin ever announced as HWs in 1992?  This is how the GH credits were, but there were no spaces.

 

Written by
Gene O'Neill &
Noreen Tobin
Maralyn Thoma
John Boni
Ralph Ellis
Frank V. Furino
Cynthia M. Jervey &
Elizabeth F. Snyder
Sheri Anderson
Tom Citrano
Eugene Hunt
Doris Silverton

-------------------------

So this is what I listed in my archive:

1991 - 1992
Norma Monty

1992 - June 1992
Gene O'Neill & Noreen Tobin (listed first but don't know if they were HWs or not)

June 1992 - 1993
Maralyn Thoma & Bill Levinson

1993 - October 8, 1993
Bill Levinson

 

 

[Khan]

I don't recall their being announced as HW's, but that was such a messy time backstage for GH, lol.

[Toups]

And I've never seen anyone talking about them as HWs, so I'm thinking there was no HW between Norma Monty and Thoma/Levinson, but I don't know for sure. 

[DeliaIrisFan]

Was Brenda really Karen's bridesmaid?  Which wedding?  The red dress Brenda was wearing on her way to the one that didn't happen looked nothing like any bridesmaid's dress I've ever seen, let alone what Karen would have picked.  And I just FFed through the wedding at Kelly's on YouTube: Brenda was also wearing red there, and her outfit looked nothing like Robin's.  I assumed Brenda was invited (both times) as a courtesy, which seemed reasonable in a small town, etc., but that she was not part of the actual wedding party. 

Bridesmaid may have been overkill, but otherwise, I can't blame the show for not lingering on the gross Brenda/Karen stuff as it's described here (I wasn't watching).  If nothing was ever proven, it's reasonable that other characters wouldn't hold it against Brenda, and I can't imagine seeing it litigated on-screen would have been entertaining at all.  Presumably the decision had been made to keep VM long-term, so isn't that what Brenda "paying" for it would have required?

@dc11786 - a Labine GH without the mob would have been interesting to me as well, but I can't imagine any other plot device from Luke and Laura's past adventures that she would have had any desire to explore.  The mob (at least at the time) was a credible source of physical and moral conflict, but could exist in the same universe as realistic, character-driven stories.  Of course, why Claire Labine was selected to write GH during L&L's return given her style remains one of soaps' great unsolved mysteries for me, but I can't fault her for how she executed any of it.  Tony Geary may have hated Luke's 1993-94 story and/or given himself and his friend credit for the idea, but Luke and Laura's comeback was well-written, compelling, and true to everything Labine and Riche wanted to do with the show.  In fact, I give Labine even more credit for how seamlessly it all came off on screen, having read Geary's account.

As for Sonny, what he became under later regimes (and what the rest of the show eventually became to sustain him) was a travesty, but I don't blame Labine for any of that.  Other than Ryan, I've never even heard of any of those early '90s villains, but Sonny would have left a lasting impression for me even if he were never heard from again after he first left.  In hindsight, I can see how the Labines may have actually been laying the groundwork for Sonny's downfall (moving way up in the organization + losing the people who brought out the best in him) if their successors had been willing to go there, knowing MB's contract was up the next year and he'd probably want to try other things.  I loved Sonny at the time but I believe I could have accepted that, and I don't argue that a break from the mob would have made sense at that point.

Edited March 16 by DeliaIrisFan

[carolineg]

So, I tried to find the scene where Karen asks Brenda to be in the wedding (the first one at the conservatory that doesn't happen) and I can't find it.  I swear she says something to Sonny when she finds him shot about being in the wedding and she has to get there.  But it's inconclusive as of now.  And Brenda could have been exaggerating her importance at the wedding or something for Sonny?  Anyhow, it's more than a courtesy invite.  Karen asks her to come to the wedding, she's at her bridal shower giving Karen gifts, and she and Robin spend the night with her the day before the wedding and they all crash Jagger's bachelor party.  So they are pretty good friends at this point.   At this moment it appears you are correct though that Brenda was just a guest.  I have spent 30 years thinking the reason that Brenda wasn't helping Karen get ready was because she was in the car accident with Sonny lol.

I don't really need Brenda to pay for her high school sins.  I am just surprised more characters didn't side eye her for it.  Karen and Brenda made up and it was all bygones and forgotten.  I am sure a lot of it was just because CS and ASJ booked it out of GH quick. They get engaged and get married a week?  2 weeks? later and are off.  There wasn't any reason to play the Brenda drama anymore. 

I have always believed Labine wanted to create Sonny for a long character arc and even though she didn't personally write it Sonny leaving Brenda at the altar was the appropriate end for the character.

Edited March 17 by carolineg

[Vee]

I agree. Though I think they purely lucked into him with Sarah Brown when he came back. I wonder how long it was before Sonny and Carly went from just an experiment with two combustible actors to something they were actively moving towards. I remember it shocking fans live BITD when the magazine spoilers hit but if you look at stuff now, a lot of the psychosexual, bonding etc. material in that period hinted towards it.

Edited March 17 by Vee

[carolineg]

I don't know if it's the fact that MB and SJB just vibed with each other as actors, but I felt it coming on long before it happened.  They hated one another too much.  I always side eyed the OTT way they acted with one another.    You are correct they did bond over quite a few things and I don't remember being shocked they slept together.  I am shocked it's still a thing now, but that's another story.

I would presume Steve leaving made it an easier decision because they really put a lot of groundwork into Carly/Jason as a pairing.  To me, though, Carly/Sonny just made more sense in the end.

[Vee]

They must've been planning sooner than just that, because we know Steve ultimately vetoed Carly around this time. But yes, looking at it again as an adult the material was always riding the line in the way Carly spells out right before they sleep together. I wasn't totally shocked because of the vibe, but as a kid racing home from school for GH I hadn't always seen all of the earlier scenes that I've seen since which are really explicit about it.

[carolineg]

Something about the way Carly needed to prove Hannah was a fed made me think they were going to go there.  Not because the show was spelling it out, but she was obsessed with saving Sonny from EVIL Hannah and it felt like she cared a lot.  I would have to watch the whole lead up again.  I think I was still in a no Brenda induced depression at the time lol.  You won't be shocked but the day Brenda "died"  I took GH off my VCR timer and had a really hard time coming back.  I was a VERY dramatic teenager lol.

[Vee]

I was not a big Brenda fan in those years because she was so omnipresent, I preferred Robin and Lois (and later Carly, who I had an intense hate/fascination relationship with like most viewers lol) and was not quite as clear on Brenda's charms in those days. I did like her more mature relationship with Jax in that period, as I've talked about but it took me years to fully appreciate her classic era or her with Sonny. So I remember the big promo spread and just rolling my eyes and being like 'come on'. I do really enjoy rewatching '90s Brenda now.

Edited March 17 by Vee

[DeliaIrisFan]

I totally think Brenda was exaggerating her importance—at the same time, making Sonny feel guilty and twisting the knife re: Karen—but now that you mention it, that dialogue does ring a bell.  So does the other stuff.  Now that you mention it, I wonder if they had actually been planning to pair Brenda and Sonny whether she would have emerged from the Jagger breakup as more of an outcast.  I assume the original plan was for Brenda to end up with one of the Quartermaine brothers, so she had to at least have Lila's seal of approval.  But instead, Sonny and Brenda could have bonded if more people blamed both of them.  I also wonder about how the cast cuts that were made to finance Luke and Laura's return, and if Brenda and Julia were both on the list. 

And I momentarily forgot about Sonny and SJB's Carly, so I will amend what I said previously: Sonny arguably should never have been heard from again, except for one guest stint in 2000. 

At the time, I thought the story leading up to Sonny leaving Brenda at the altar was stupid, and her believing Jason was stupid, and I have absolutely no desire to rewatch anything from GH in 1997 so I can't say if I'd feel differently now.  I was actually thinking of something darker for the tragic exit that the Labines planted the seeds for: after a year or so of becoming more and more cut off from everyone he once cared about, Who Killed Sonny (with or without a body)?  His brief return to impregnate Carly could have been an homage to James Stenbeck on ATWT: Hello Brend...wait, who the hell are you???

Edited March 17 by DeliaIrisFan

[carolineg]

I feel like I don't even know you lol.

Brenda, Lois and Robin are my top three favorites in that era in that order.  Carly I am so hit or miss on.  I found so much of her antics in the 90's disgusting, but I appreciate it now.

Jax and Brenda had good writing in 1998 as far as their romance, it just took 75% of Vanessa's 1 year contract to get there.

I think Sonny/Brenda can be a hard watch in retrospect because they are so good together, but it's so toxic.  Young me ate that [!@#$%^&*] up, but adult me is a bit more icked out about the way Sonny treated her.

I think the show was very open to pairing Vanessa with just about anyone.  She had that bubble bath fantasy with Jagger, Jason, AJ, Sonny, and Ned as romantic interests.  I would be most inclined to think the show was going to pair her with SK's AJ before a random Sonny scene at a car dealership caught fire.  

I wouldn't ever assume Vanessa was on the chopping block just because how strongly Mark Teschner believed in her and because they lost ASJ and CS and they needed Robin to have a friend at least lol.  I would think Sonny was on the chopping block before Brenda.

I hate 1997 as well.  I can't stand Sonny/Brenda's reunion, the dumb origami killer story, and I haven't watched the wedding since it first aired.  Not because I am so sad about it, but I find it all so cringey and have second hand embarrassment for Brenda.  The walking down the aisle alone, the crying in the rain, Jason saying it was a great ride, etc.  I just can't do it.  I HATE the breakdown story after as well.

I actually never saw Sonny's ending being more tragic.  I thought it would be perfectly fitting if he was just his own worst enemy and the power he craved cost him everyone he loved and he had to live in his own misery.

[Khan]

I agree.  IMO, Jason needed someone who, for lack of a better word, was purer than Carly, because, even on the off-chance that he were to retrieve his lost memories, Jason still would have an edge about him.  He wouldn't just snap back into being "Jason Quartermaine" like nothing had happened.  (At least, that's my interpretation, YMMV, lol).  Similarly, I think Sonny would have worked best with Lily - y'know, before she "blowed up real good," lol? - but theirs would have been a constant struggle over Sonny's being with "the organization" versus Lily's desire to protect him, herself and their growing family. 

And as for Brenda...?  Well, I definitely think she should have been with someone like Jax, but not necessarily Jax, just b/c - if I'm being frank - I didn't like Ingo from day damn one, lol.  Ingo was entirely too blonde and "pretty" for Brenda/Vanessa.  She needed someone with darker, more brooding features - a real Rhett Butler-type, who would have been older, and played back in the halcyon days of the '70's and '80's by someone like Michael Woods or Lee Godart.