AMC: Hubbard birth spoilers

[Jonathan]

I think they should give Cliff and Angie a shot again. I think the audience is ready for that now.

[marceline]

Like I said, I never saw Jacob so I'm just throwing my own biases out there. Plus I'm always leery of dual roles. But who knows? Maybe it would work. Although, I see no reason to make DW play a dual role. Bring on a cool, calm, willing to step back black guy played by another actor and keep hot-headed, impetuous Jesse.

[AllMyDaysatGH]

[DRW50]

Thanks for posting that.

Those scenes look grueling.

At least they had Sharon and Adam doing the Vulcan mindmeld to show us how much worse this story could be...

[DeeeDee]

But you see David can drug people, Ryan can threaten to hit women, JR can shove people out of windows & Tad can bury a man alive yet Jesse HAS to die!

Must, Has To, Always Will!

The irony & hypocrisy is hilarious.

Too bad he didn't.

[SFK]

I am VERY against the idea of killing Jesse... again. This is Jesse here, not Josh, I don't care if bringing him back was a "mistake", killing him off again would be an even huger one. If he does go to jail, I like the idea of Jacob bringing Cassie back to town to be with her mother at this time, the both of them lending their support when perhaps in her vulnerability she finds herself oddly leaning on and taking aggression out on Jacob. Or leaning on Greg as marceline suggested and an "I'm vulnerable" spark or two flies. No sleeping together in Greg or Jacob's case, nothing beyond some chemistry and mixed emotions, a kiss or two. Frankie looking on torn between his mom's feelings and his dad's respect.

[Khan]

I beg your pardon, but I hope you aren't including me as one of the hypocrites. Just b/c I think bringing Jesse back from the dead was regretful and that there's no way to redeem him (for lack of a better word) in light of the pending baby switch, that does not mean I categorically apologize for or whitewash the misdeeds of others ("who happen to be NOT Black"). There are plenty of folks in Pine Valley who deserve some bad karma, and Jesse isn't the only one for whom I think that "bad karma" should be in the form of death.

[marceline]

When was the last time SOD had that much brown skin on the cover? Funny how neither Jesse nor Angie is looking at the the camera. Too threatening I guess.

Oh well, baby steps. No pun intended.

[DRW50]

That's a shame.

I'd say they could always recast Cliff if they wanted to play that story again. Too bad Terry Lester is gone.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

That's weird though, as Bergman credits Debbi with him taking over the role of Jack Abbot on Y&R. He said she was one of the first people that assured him he could play another role on a soap, and she was a Y&R fan at that time.

I wonder why he didn't like being paired with her romantically...

[Jonathan]

I never heard that. I know viewer reaction was negative during the time. There's an Oprah clip where Debbi addresses it.

[marceline]

Really? I don't. As the audience for soaps has dwindled, so has the open-mindedness. I think plenty of people would freak the hell out at Cliff/Angie and unfortunately a lot of the people who wouldn't don't watch soaps anymore.

I never heard that either. IIRC, it was the bigotry and the way the show caved to it that he hated, not the pairing itself. Nothing's changed there.

[DeeeDee]

[Khan]

EXACTLY.

First of all, no one should allow themselves to believe Angie could be happy only with Jesse (or Jacob). It's that kind of thinking, after all, that has bred so many insufferable pairings, both on AMC and on soaps in general. Plus, there are still those who remember when AMC tried to sell us on Angie w/ Cal Cummings. ;-)

Second, as much as I would love to bring back Cliff (w/ or w/o Nina) in order to restart the Cliff/Angie romance and stick it to those bigots who shot it down the first time, in my mind, it'd be more organic, for lack of a better word, for Greg to return to Pine Valley than it would Cliff. Greg, after all, is Jesse and Angie's closest friend; and whether he returns on the occasion of Jesse's death, or he returns b/c Jesse has landed himself in prison for charges stemming from the baby switch, he would want to be there for Angie - as a friend - b/c on top of everything else (her illness, her blindness, the baby switch, Jesse's death/imprisonment/exile/whatever), Jesse's absence from her life would remind him how he wasn't there for her before, the first time they'd lost Jesse; and this is his way to make up somewhat for that...

But if Jesse were to die...again...

Greg and Angie would know what it was like to live w/o the love of one's life. That, and their mutual appreciation for each other, would be the thing upon which to build a slow - slow - romance. (It must be slow-building, too, b/c throwing them together in a quick manner will make them both look extremely callous.) The more gradual their feelings progress, the more others around them - Tad, Opal, Krystal, Randi, Frankie (reluctantly, at first, of course, but Randi would help him come around), even Liza (who I could see standing up to the once-again-disapproving Enid Nelson, much to everyone's surprise - a move, by the way, that might redeem Liza somewhat from her current position as pariah, as well as plant the first seeds for a possible Greg/Liza union, should "Grangie" not work out) - the more the people in their lives begin picking up on the chemistry between them, the more I believe viewers will or could accept it - again, b/c it was done slowly and gradually, not crammed down everyone's throats, w/ everyone made to like it "or else."

At the same time, though, Greg realizes what others are saying is correct - namely, that he is becoming attracted to Angie - but there's a problem. Forget about Jenny; beginning a romance with Angie would feel like a betrayal against his best friend, Jesse! Fortunately, Jesse's spirit is there at the appropriate moment to tell him that although he personally cannot stand the idea of Angie being with anyone else, he could at least rest more peacefully knowing there was someone in her life like Greg who loved her and had only her best interests at heart. And Greg would finally feel comfortable enough to express his feelings to Angie.

That's when I would throw in the twist of Jacob Foster's unexpected return to Angie and Frankie's lives.

Because - I don't know, wild guess, but - kissing Black women creeped him the hell out?

[Khan]

I already know what you're going to say, Jonathan, so spare me the "Khan = Megan McTavish" b.s., alright? I'm through pretending that [!@#$%^&*] doesn't bother me. Because it does. Just because I suggested one Megan-esque story idea for a character (Randi) I did not have a handle on at that time -- that doesn't mean I'm the hackiest hack who ever hacked. I've more talent in my damn pinky than that coked-up bitch had in her entire body. I know it, you know it, even Koko Barf knows it, and she'd come closer to being like MMT than I ever would. So STFU and have a seat.