As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Bill Bauer]

It probably never happened. It was probably a PR ploy back in the day to get people to tune in to see what all the "fuss" was about and it turned into an urban legend over time. The reason for so many variations of the story is because writers and actors couldn't remember what the official story was supposed to be. I've seen EF recount the story of being slapped in the street by an obviously deranged person with a laugh and a smile. I doubt that anyone who had that happen to them would tell the story with a smile and a chuckle. Nor would they just brush it off and not have the person arrested. 

[Soapsuds]

And Lucinda had rubbed off on her when she double crossed Barbara at Montgomery and Associates. That's who Lily should've become. After Martha returned all that was gone.

I heard Rattray had only planned on staying for those two years. I thought they had enough chemistry. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soapsuds

[Mitch]

Agreed..EF was the first soap star to hire a publicist (or so I heard) and she paved the way for the divas to come so I am sure this, and her bodyguard was a ploy...(probably started and the guard paid for by Fulton herself.)

[MarlandFan]

I believe Rattray was there for a full three years, from very end of 1989 to the very end of 1992.

[DRW50]

She was, yes.

The Jon Hensley quote about the lack of chemistry with her reminds me of how little he had with Martha when she returned. I did feel like they had more when he returned in 1997 - I wonder if that whole period was just a funk for him and that's the main reason he struggled to connect, rather than Heather replacing Martha. I really wish he had left several years earlier than he did (he left in early 1995). 

[MarlandFan]

I know I'm the minority here, but I did not appreciate Jon Hensley's acting abilities. He seemed to struggle with lines and his range ran from A to B.  He was a gorgeous man (especially in the 80s) and lucked out by landing in a super-couple that lasted for decades, but if there was any lack of chemistry with the various Lilys, it was due to him.

[Soaplovers]

I think Marland putting Lily and Holden back together in 1990/1 was kind of mistake since the actors didn't have chemistry.

However, it made their break up in late 1992 work because their lack of chemistry worked in that case.  I do wonder had Rattray stayed even another year..where the story would have gone.  Doubt Damian would have been created 

[lilyredd]

I think both Holden and Lily would have benefited from different partners when Rattray was in the role. I mean they made the girl that whined that her mom read financial magazines a businesswoman. Really, to me, it was changing Lily into a businesswoman that doomed the actress as much as her lack of chemistry with her male leads. I liked Rattray as an actress but she couldn’t overcome my dislike of the character she portrayed. Also, Holden was more interesting to me when he first arrived but in true Marland style he toned him down. I mean he went to work on the farm because his ambition was “bad.” It wasn’t Lily that should have been more Lucinda-like it was Holden. 
 

I love that story about Fulton and the fan, true or not. I think Joan Collins mentioned being confronted by fans about her character. That is so funny to me as I adore the bad girls on these shows and cannot imagine yelling at an actress for her performance. Without Alexis, Lisa, Lucinda, etc. I would have never invested in their shows. 
 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by lilyredd

[DRW50]

The interesting thing about businesswoman Lily I did not realize until I watched some 1989 episodes a few years ago is that the transition toward Lily caring more about business started in Martha's last months in the role. Lucinda began to find more of a place for her at Walsh. I know Martha did not like business stories, but then, Heather's Lily was only heavy in business for about a year or a year and a half before they began focusing more on Lily wanting a domestic life. I think Heather's colder, steelier persona and the early memories of her at A&M, crossing swords with Emily and Sean Baxter make it seem like she was more involved in business than she really was.

I agree that Holden was more interesting in a cold corporate world than on the farm. Marland himself decided, presumably with what Hensley wanted too, to make the character colder with the brain damage story. Unfortunately, this thread was lost after Marland died (and may have been lost even if he'd lived) - Holden was still treated as a leading man we were supposed to root for, even as he went around being a self-righteous prick and a deadbeat dad. 

I never liked the relationship and I wanted more for Heather's Lily  - I remember enjoying her with Linc. I do wonder if Marland reunited them in that period primarily for plot reasons. The show got a hell of a lot of story - big, big story - for years based on their reunion (Angel's breakdown, the Aaron saga, Holden's brain damage, etc.). They probably had more heavy story which impacted the whole of the show in that period than they ever did again.

Oh if you had known me around 1993 or 1994 I'd be in your ear all day on that subject, believe me. I do think he improved, or at least became more at ease, after his 1997 return. I don't think he was ever comfortable or happy in the role until then (as shown by him leaving twice - and probably his messier personal life as well).

[TVFAN1144]

I don’t think many writers have a grasp of Midwestern small towns.  A multi terminal airport, large hospital, business tycoons with private jets

[Soapsuds]

It was interesting that they cloned Martha to look like Heather when she first appeared in 1993. 

Did someone here say Jon had acting skills?? Giggles... I never recall anyone saying it.

Messy life? Do tell!

[Mitch]

Yea, I never understand why businesses have to be multinational corporations...why not just the largest corporation in that part of the state? Why the rich families have to be some of the richest in the country and yes, the ridiculous airports...(cause who cares, has their ever been an exciting airport scene on a soap?) why a surgeon has to be "The foremost expert in the country," its just all so dumb...and I grew up watching them!

 

Bwhaha...as if JH was ever hired for his acting abilities! He was just lucky that he was hired at the perfect point where his looks intersected with what the show needed..he actually had the body of a farm boy...(muscle but not roided out like Linc...beefy, ) pictured with a face that could only be a soap farm boy and gave off a surly sexual vibe. To the shows credit I can't believe they didn't go with a skinny twink (like Aaron) or a sculpted muscle model...Holden looked like he ate Emma's cooking and drank beer. I did think he was fine as a middle aged dad who sometimes screwed up...again, he looked like a cute suburban dad and he developed a nice way with the younger actors.

And yes, I would love to hear about his problematic personal life..though I read so much on Datalounge about it but of course, take that with a grain of salt!

[j swift]

Whoever was the writer to give Holden a brain injury was a good problem solver.  The plot matched the characterization and explained his sodden presence.  As I vaguely recall, the scenes with Lucinda that caused Holden's miraculous recovery in a cellar were captivating, but mostly due to the skills of Elizabeth Hubbard.

Catty quotation for the week: it didn't help that he didn't age well...

Edited July 27, 2021 by j swift

[TVFAN1144]

For those mourning the loss of these beloved soaps it looks like the replacements are not doing much better. ATWTs replacement The Talk is last in overall daytime ratings.  The network probably isn’t too concerned since it is cheaper to produce and draws the desired demographics.  Maybe people are tiring of talk shows

The Chew didn’t last after replacing All My Children and that GMA thing doesn’t seem to be doing well    That show that replaced One Life to Live (Revolution?) lasted a few months and the slot was saved by General Hospital 

Let’s Make a Deal seems to be doing ok after Guiding Light   It airs in a different morning time slot in many markets than the soap it replaced 

 

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

Are we just going to pretend that the worst years for Lily and Holden weren't the last twelve or so years??