3 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I read that ATWT had to take Eplin because his contract was with P&G not AW.

 

Otherwise he would have had to be paid after AW was cancelled until the contract expired.

 

So they had to integrate Jake to make their financial investment pay off.

 

The minute that contract expired Jake was out.

 

Am I correct about this??

 

Why not put him on GL? I do think Goutman was instrumental in bringing him over to AW because of their work together on AW. Also they could have renewed Eplin's contract and kept him on ATWT. He had a lot of fans. I still think it was a mistake killing that character. I never watched AW and didn't see any of his early stuff in Bay City, but I thought the character was a tremendous asset to the Oakdale scene. Molly kind of floundered after Jake's death.

5 hours ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

I think Holden was Marland's tribute to William Holden.

 

Actually, he named Holden after Holden Caufield, from J.D. Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye."  Just as Iva was named after Iva Archer, the widow of Sam Spade's fallen business partner, in "The Maltese Falcon."

 

I always thought it odd how Darryl, who (IIRC) had been introduced as a former boyfriend of Margo's, shared the last name (Crawford) as her mother (pre-marriage, of course) and aunt.  Did Margo ever note the coincidence?  I can't recall.

Edited July 2, 20187 yr by Khan

42 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Why not put him on GL? I do think Goutman was instrumental in bringing him over to AW because of their work together on AW. Also they could have renewed Eplin's contract and kept him on ATWT. He had a lot of fans. I still think it was a mistake killing that character. I never watched AW and didn't see any of his early stuff in Bay City, but I thought the character was a tremendous asset to the Oakdale scene. Molly kind of floundered after Jake's death.

Cass and Lila and Jake and Vicky came over because ATWT and AW aired in the same timeslot and CBS were hoping NBC viewers would switch allegiance in that timeslot.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

I still don't understand how or when John and Barbara happened or for how long. It just seems bizarre to me.

 

It might have made more sense during the James Stenbeck years, when the two men were virtually ATWT's version of Itchy and Scratchy.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

The minute that contract expired Jake was out.

 

Am I correct about this??

 

Well, there were OTHER factors that played into that decision.  But I don't know whether I'm at liberty to say.

1 hour ago, MichaelGL said:

Calhoun had almost the same impact on GL. One can say he was the last great EP of the Proctor and Gamble soaps. 

 

It's a shame P&G didn't ask Robert Calhoun to succeed Ed Trach as the exec in charge for all their soaps.  I feel like they would have been in much better hands with him than they were with Ken Fitts and especially MADD.

Edited July 2, 20187 yr by Khan

13 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Cass and Lila and Jake and Vicky came over because ATWT and AW aired in the same timeslot and CBS were hoping NBC viewers would switch allegiance in that timeslot.

 

That's right. It was P&G's way of bringing NBC's viewers over instead of them watching the show that had replaced AW.

 

14 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Cass and Lila and Jake and Vicky came over because ATWT and AW aired in the same timeslot and CBS were hoping NBC viewers would switch allegiance in that timeslot.

 

Also, when you think about how Irna (and Bill Bell) had intended AW to be an ATWT spinoff (before it ended up on NBC) and that the two shows DID share a character (Mitchell Dru) once upon a time, it just made more sense.

 

IIRC, Stephen Schnetzer made several appearances on GL as Cass; and IMO, it was an odd fit.

33 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Actually, he named Holden after Holden Caufield, from J.D. Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye."  Just as Iva was named after Iva Archer, the widow of Sam Spade's fallen business partner, in "The Maltese Falcon."

 

I always thought it odd how Darryl, who (IIRC) had been introduced as a former boyfriend of Margo's, shared the last name (Crawford) as her mother (pre-marriage, of course) and aunt.  Did Margo ever note the coincidence?  I can't recall.

 

Speaking of Darryl and the reuse of names...his wife was named Carolyn. Marland had previously used the name Caroline as someone in Doug Cummings' past (a dead mother or dead wife, can't remember which, but there was a Caroline Cummings); and then Marland used the name Caroline when he named Iva's biological mother since Jared Carpenter's wife was Caroline Carpenter, and she had given birth to Iva.

 

1 hour ago, MichaelGL said:

Calhoun had almost the same impact on GL. One can say he was the last great EP of the Proctor and Gamble soaps. 

 

On GL, my favorite producer was Gail Kobe followed by Paul Rauch. On ATWT my favorite producer was Felicia Minei Behr then Chris Goutman. I think Calhoun and Caso were lucky that Marland was headwriter during their tenures. Not sure if their years would have seemed as good with lesser writers.

 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Oh, Goutman had a huge impact actually, so I wasn't downplaying it at all. It was a large and lasting impact.  He was there for at least a decade which was more than enough time to make a lasting impression and that, he did.

 

I was pointing out that Calhoun was there for only a few years and it is still surprising how much of an impact he had for a relatively brief tenure (in soap years anyway).

 

Part of what an EP does is not just cost cutting and budgets but in how the talent is managed.  I take the sum total in when I made the distinction.  I've worked with EPs who were strict but managed to treat everyone humanely.  You can't always say yes, but even if you part ways with talent, at least let it be done on relatively amicable terms.

 

Of course producing a show is more than budget and cost containment. I mentioned budget in my earlier comment to explain why Goutman may have used the vets less than he or fans may have liked.

 

I think it's interesting how he used his wife for a role in 2008. Loved watching her on Search for Tomorrow in the 80s. She was on OLTL too.

 

Edited July 2, 20187 yr by JarrodMFiresofLove

I didn't know Stewart Cushing and Marcy were expecting a child around the time David Stewart died was the child ever mentioned again?

John and Barbara bonded during some search for Lisa, IIRC. Or it was something to do with Martin Chedwyn. I can see on paper where it might seem like it could work, but Bryggman and Zenk had zero chemistry. That said, little Johnny's death was one well executed and deeply moving.

 

Re: Jake....eh, I wasn't anti-Jake, but man did he eat a lot of screen time.

 

Rebecca Hollen was Pat Kingsley, I don't recall any other Kingsley's. Didn't Duncan also know her and her husband?

Patricia's late husband was Bertram. She was the only Kingsleythat was on the show.

 

 

 

 

Writers sometimes use names special to them ...Bill Bell in particular was known for this.

 

Maybe there was a special Caroline in Marland's life?

 

I know his mother's name was Beatrice and he used that name at AYWT, GL, GH and AW.

 

Were there any Bea's/Beatrice at Loving  or TD?

I updated my post on Marland creations on page 495. There were about ten more I had come across on various websites. For example Corinne Lawrence and her daughter Monica. I'd forgotten about them.

 

Also I removed Shannon and Hal, since they were introduced by Susan Horgan.

 

Edited July 2, 20187 yr by JarrodMFiresofLove

14 hours ago, Vee said:

I still don't understand how or when John and Barbara happened or for how long. It just seems bizarre to me.

 

Others have already explained it, but it always seemed like a "we don't know what to do with these people" scenario. I wonder how Broderick felt about Barbara as she was mostly a supporting figure throughout Broderick's tenure as headwriter.

 

Maybe one of the several rejected Broderick story ideas involved Barbara?

 

Barbara was kind of a difficult character to write at times.  Didn't Marland decide to one day turn her into a femme fatale after getting fed up with losing one too many times?  Was there backlash from this sudden 180 turn in character?  And what Sheffer did to Barbara... eek!

 

I liked someone's idea before of having Hunt Block play her brother Rick instead of Craig.  It would have served the same function of causing conflict between Hal/Barbara since Rick could have broken the law.. and Barbara wanting to defend her brother... and Kim being in the middle since it involved her nephew.  The whole Rosanna thing still would have worked as well.. and tied Rosanna in with the core family (I don't count the Snyders as a core family.. I count them as an infestation that ate away the show over time).

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Maybe one of the several rejected Broderick story ideas involved Barbara?

 

Barbara was kind of a difficult character to write at times.  Didn't Marland decide to one day turn her into a femme fatale after getting fed up with losing one too many times?  Was there backlash from this sudden 180 turn in character?  And what Sheffer did to Barbara... eek!

 

I liked someone's idea before of having Hunt Block play her brother Rick instead of Craig.  It would have served the same function of causing conflict between Hal/Barbara since Rick could have broken the law.. and Barbara wanting to defend her brother... and Kim being in the middle since it involved her nephew.  The whole Rosanna thing still would have worked as well.. and tied Rosanna in with the core family (I don't count the Snyders as a core family.. I count them as an infestation that ate away the show over time).

 

I'll fess up.  I was the one that brought up Rick Ryan more than once over the years.  Except for a few storylines about 20 years prior, Rick was almost a complete blank slate in soap terms and could've been eased back onto the canvas. 

 

In terms of Barbara, writing a vixen probably gives the writer a freer hand in writing story.  Oakdale already had its heroine in Kim Hughes and then you had several women (Betsy, Frannie, Margo 2.0) that were various shades of ingenue/heroine so the show needed a vixen and Barbara Ryan with her history of either being trod on or left wanting by the men in her life, likely fit the bill.  

 

The clever thing about how Barbara was written by Marland was that, even in the midst of her most twisted scheme, she always had a justification for it (even if it only made sense in her mind) and she could never taste complete satisfaction with her actions, even when she appeared to get away with something.  More often than not though, her schemes were usually revealed and often in the most embarrassing of ways.

Unlike today when some characters' actions are completely villainous yet they never seem to pay the price.

Also, Marland humanized Barbara even at her worst.  You never doubted she loved her son Paul. Only once did she really show anything short of love and adoration for Kim and Bob (during the entire Sabrina scandal revelation) and even that was out of a sense of sorrow over her mother Jennifer. 

Barbara was written with enough complexity that even after the affair with Tonio while he was married to Sierra (who Barbara repeatedly sold clothes to) and messing with Tom and Margo and turning vengeful against Brian and Shannon, you still believed that Barbara was actually capable of falling completely in love with Hal Munson.

That's some good writing.

 

Edited July 2, 20187 yr by DramatistDreamer