As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I would always want to know more about exactly WHY Irna had such issues with the Stewart family, especially since she had created them! Was she trying to freshen up the show or something? I know she was offended by the immorality of Liz/Paul/Susan/Dan, but then look at the immorality with Kim/Bob/Gennifer she created.

That's one of those things where it's amazing the show turned itself around.

I also wish we knew more about some of the other departures. In one of the 1980 Digests they mention something that basically says even though they thought the problems had been worked out. Dennis Cooney/Jay had been fired. I wonder what all that was about.

I don't know if any of you are interested but I have a few ATWT-related magazines from the mid-70s that have some interviews, some with actors and some with writers, director, wardrobe, etc. Since that is going a bit far back I didn't know if it would have interest or not.

Edited January 27, 2011 by CarlD2

[Mitch]

I would love to read about that "stuff," back then!

I just remember Jay disappearing..(this was back when I first started watching as a regular viewer and not because it was "on.") they would mention him, "Oh, Lisa, Jay had to leave the wedding for work, can I get a ride with you and Grant?" but never show him. So they had Carol, kinda flirting with Steve, but no drama, as the husband was not there. I think that it could have been an interesting story, Carol dealing with natural sexual feelings but still staying faithful. They killed him off in a "mine," disaster, so maybe his contract was up in the summer, and the Dobsons wanted to keep him on until November to kill him off then?

Who knows about Irna, the broad must have been something else to deal with! I loved Ehlers version of her on the GL anniversary thing. I read she went to talk to Hastings, Fulton and Hays to get a scoop of how Irna acted, talked, etc.

[soapfan770]

Some classic ATWT ads, including ATWT's first hour long episode. I know AW and Days did special things for their first hour long episodes and both Edge of Night and The Doctors did special 90 minute episodes, but did ATWT do anything special for theirs?

[DRW50]

Thanks for finding these. I really love that Whit McColl poster - they just use stock photos and some of them are so out of place, especially Steve's.

The one for Meg/Rod is pretty good. I thought he was back to Josh by then.

[Mitch]

Remember when they would put Lucinda in those ridiculous Alexis Carrington hats. That went by the wayside with Marland, thank God. So out of place with Lucinda, I mean, how does one throw their hands up and wave them all over the place with that honking ass hat in the way?

Rod...that whole storyline gave me the skeeveys, starting with his name. How did anyone not say, "Uh, we need to come up with another name," unless they did it as a joke and unless the ATWT writers were different then their material, I can' t see them doing it. Have we ever had confirmation on Marland's sexuality (I mean, I confirmed it by just watching the show) I think it interesting that you could kinda surmise a writer's neurois back then, the work was so individual. His fascination with straight farm boys (he grew up on a farm) quasi incest, and "Rod," the rapist!!!

I love the ad for the hour long expansion...it seems ATWT wasnt in the grip of trying to youthify the show yet, with Nancy and Chris front and center (just three years later they would be obscured by the Dobsons.) I also love the Joyce/Grant/Lisa picture, that was the whole storyline in a nutshell, over and over and over again! I always wondered why those women were so crazy to get him, he was uptight and also kinda dumb ("OH Joyce, I believe you have a brain tumor, just because you told me, even though you have a history of constantly lying, so I will do what anyone would logiclaly do, marry you!"

[DRW50]

From the January 1, 1985 Digest (Network Publishing Co). The timing of this interview is odd to me, because I thought by late 1984 the show was already redeeming Craig.

[Paul Raven]

Irna returned to ATWT in early 72. She had Liz and Paul and Dan and Susan divorce and killed of Paul in Nov.72 .In early 73, Liz was killed off, Dan sent to England, Susan and her new husband Bruce were divorced and Susan was written off.

These stories caused Irna to be fired in mid 73.

Apparently, according to Don Hastings in a WLS interview,the ratings went up within months of Irna's return but obviously dropped again.

With Paul dead,Dan offscreen and Dee and Annie not SORASED there was little for Ellen to do. Her mother Claire had already been killed off in 1970.I guess David hung around as he was involved in hospital stories. Maybe Henderson Forsythe was busy with theater projects at that time and wasn't on too much. I don't think Ellen came back until the show went to an hour in 75.

[DRW50]

Thanks for filling me in on all that. I didn't realize there was that long of a gap between no Stewart kids and Dan coming back.

[saynotoursoap]

I wish to clarify points made by Paul Raven and questions asked by Carl, because I believe confusion exists over the timeline of events. The deaths of Paul Stewart in November 1972 and Liz Talbot Stewart in February 1973 are correct. In March 1973, Dan did move to England suddenly with Emily and Betsy, and Susan divorced Bruce Baxter before departing Oakdale. Dan obtained temporary custody of Emily; however he did not have the legal right to remove her from Oakdale. Dan felt needed to get Emily and Betsy far away from Susan's influence and ignored the consequences of his actions. This would be an important plot point after the Soderbergs became headwriters.

I should remark that Marie Masters was a super actress. Irna's decision to let her and John Colenbeck go was a strategic error that could have sunk the series because their storyline was phenomenal. There was an unforgettable scene after Dan had fled Oakdale. Susan went to Dan's house to attempt to patch up their relationship. Susan's obsession with Dan and delusions that she could actually win him back were nearly heartbreaking. Susan let herself into the house only to find all of the furniture covered in sheets and a few empty boxes strewn about. She walked through the deserted room, a look of bewilderment across her face. She stopped, realizing that Dan and the children were gone, and there would be no more opportunities for reconciliation. She said quietly, regrettably, sadly, "But who told them I was coming?" The camera pulled back to show her a lone figure in the middle of an empty room, as the picture faded ever so slowly to black with no musical underscore. That one scene spoke volumes about the character.

After Susan left, the Stewart family did not recede into the background. Immediately, a new actress was cast as Carol Anne Stewart, now a teenager. Carol Anne exerted her independence and rebellion in a typical summer soap opera story. She had an older boyfriend named Richie. Richie rode a motorcycle and pressured Carol Anne to "go all the way" with him. This was when the character decided she wished to be called "Annie". Ellen feared that Annie was about to make the same mistake Ellen had made years earlier when she was impregnated by Tim Cole. David was a trifle more permissive and trusting of Annie. Annie used David against Ellen and created enormous tension in the Stewart marriage. Ellen forced Annie and Dee to go with her to visit Dan in England. This was in the summer of 1973. Annie hopped a plane back to Oakdale to run off with Richie, but when he pushed her to become intimate, she freaked out and ran home to David. Ellen was majorly pissed, and she and Annie spent much of the remainder of the year having mother/daughter conflicts.

In February 1974, Susan returned to Oakdale following an 11 month absence. She had been hired to work on a research project at Memorial with David. Unknown to anyone, Susan was having an affair with a man named Mark Galloway. Galloway was first played by Stephen Bolster then Anthony "James Stenbeck" Herrera took over the part. Susan strung Mark along in a secret affair while trying to convince Ellen and David that she had changed. Susan claimed that family was the most important thing to her, and she wanted to be a real mother to Emily. At the same time, Dan (recast with John Reilly) phoned Ellen from England to say that he wanted to come home. This was around May or June of 1974, a little over a year after John Colenbeck's Dan had been written out. Susan told Mark that she planned to have Dan arrested for kidnapping Emily, since his temporary custody order prohibited him from taking her out of Oakdale. Susan also planned to sue Dan for full custody of Emily.

The custody suit, with Grant Coleman acting as Dan's attorney, was the focus of the Stewart family's story for the rest of 1974. Ellen was heavily involved. Susan attempted to ingratiate herself to Ellen and David to get what she really wanted, which was Dan himself. Ellen tried not to alienate Susan, because Ellen knew that she could keep tabs on Susan and report it back to Grant and Dan, consequently helping Dan's case. The custody case wrapped at the beginning of 1975.

In the spring of 1975, P&G instigated a mass termination of veteran actors including George Reinholt and Ginny Dwyer at Another World and Teri Keane and Alberta Grant at The Edge of Night. P&G also dropped Patsy Bruder as Ellen on ATWT. At this point, ATWT was still a 30 minute soap. After the show expanded to an hour in December 1975, P&G decided to bring Ellen Stewart back. So Ellen/Patsy was only off the canvas for about an 8 month period in 1975.

[DRW50]

Thank you for all these details. Was this when Glynis O'Connor played Annie? What did you think of her?

I know you've probably already talked about this before, but did you prefer Colenback or Reilly? What did you think of the last Paul Stewart?

I'm glad you're posting again. I am going to put up some of the behind the scenes stuff soon and would enjoy your comments.

[Michael]

Wow, thanks for such a detailed rundown! There's really no other way to learn about this stuff in such depth aside from generous people who actually saw it sharing what they recall.

When Bruder was gone for that time in 1975, did they write Ellen out? Or did we just not see her? And was David Stewart still seen during that time?

[KMan101]

What was with P&G wanting so many veterans out around the same time? Budgetary reasons or a stronger focus on youth?

[saynotoursoap]

Carl, Glynnis played Dee instead of Annie. I do not recall having an opinion of her. I preferred older characters. I would have preferred Ellen and David over their children if I had been a child myself. Kids on soaps never interested me. I will say Glynnis was better suited for an adolescent Dee Stewart than she was an adult Margo Hughes. I cannot comprehend what the casting director had in mind with that one. Annie had been played by Ariane Munker. She was replaced by an actress (Shelly something or other) who stayed about a year and never went on to do anything else in daytime.

I preferred Colenback. John Colenback is Dan Stewart to me and always will be. However, I did enjoy John Reilly, too. Colenback seemed more like an As the World Turns actor, his physical appearance and his acting style, if that makes sense. Reilly could have been an actor on The Doctors or Another World. Reilly being a recast did help in one respect. Dan returned at a time when the writers were attempting to straighten out the Kim/Bob/Jennifer mess. To keep Kim a viable character, she had to suffer for her betrayal with Bob. The Soderbergs saddled Kim in a loveless marriage to John Dixon, but to make it work effectively, Kim needed a love interest whom she could not have. Bob was out of the question, because that is what caused the initial story problem. The solution was to have Kim fall in love with Dan and be thwarted at every turn by John Dixon and Susan. If John Colenback had returned as Dan in 1974, I think the ghost of his love for Liz Talbot would have been problematic because that was the relationship with which we the audience associated him. By casting a new actor, John Reilly, it was easier for us to accept Dan Stewart falling so deeply and quickly for Kim.

[DRW50]

Was it hard for you to accept Munker as Melinda since you saw her as Annie?

That's interesting about Kim/Dan and Reilly. For some reason I thought Colenback had been in the role when Dan/Kim started, based on "unfinished love story" and such the Digest talked about when Colenback returned to the role.

[saynotoursoap]

Michael, Ellen was not officially written out. She continued to exist in Oakdale; she simply was not shown on camera. The same thing occurred with Nancy Hughes when Helen Wagner quit in 1982. David continued to appear on camera. I did not write about it, but the conclusion of the custody trial was superb. Susan gained the upper hand by having a closed hearing in which she informed the judge that Dan was Betsy Stewart's father, not her uncle, because he had an affair with Liz Talbot, his brother Paul's wife. Susan's attorney managed to twist Dan's witnesses into testimony that made Dan look bad. Everyone was certain that Susan would win the case. But Susan had secretly asked her mother Julia to raise Emily in her home after the case was settled. Julia realized that Susan did not care about being a mother to Emily. On the last day of the trial, Julia took the witness stand to testify on Dan's behalf. She told the court that Susan had been having an affair with Mark Galloway, and they conspired to take Emily away from Dan because Susan wanted to punish him for not loving her. She also testified that Susan had been a negligent mother who left the baby gate open at the top of the stairs in Dan's house, which resulted in Liz's fatal fall. Julia's testimony swayed the judge into giving Dan full custody.

The loss of Dan and Emily pushed Susan over the edge, and she started having numerous alcoholic binges. She missed work at Memorial and was so drunk at times that she forget to chart patients accurately and tried to pass the mistakes off to other doctors. Despite all the misery she caused his family, David felt sorry for Susan and attempted to cover for her, but when Susan saw Dan kissing Kim, she went on a major bender. David issued Susan an ultimatum to either get professional help for alcoholism or quit Memorial. When she would not agree to either, David fired her. Infuriated, Susan went to John and told him that David terminated her without reason. John, married to Kim, knew through Kim that Susan had become an alcoholic. When John refused to speak to the hospital board on her behalf, Susan viciously told him that Kim did not love him and was seeing Dan behind John's back. The storyline at that point featured the Memorial setting almost daily, and David was there. It was his home life with Ellen and the girls that was backburnered until Patsy Bruder came back.