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With all due respect for Collen, I have always found the Brian actor scary, and kinda gross. Its like his body is way too skinny for his head. I think he is good at playing skeezy characters, like his GL one(s) or AW, but as a nice, conflicted person...uh no. The Brian character could have been a good one, and was conceived well, (ambitious prosecuting attorney vs. his step brother, the idealistic hippie Tom that Deas played ) but after the recast with Pinter it kinda sucked. And he never seems to have chemistry with his female partners. I thought they should have recast all of Lisa's stepkids after the Diana actress and Kirk left...she needed a family and Brian could have been a good character. Trivia, Lisa was originally supposed to be lovers with Brian and then be attracted to Whit.

LOL at Cousin Gerri! I woulda loved her on ATWT, but Marland would have made some boring socially "relevent," story about her being discriminated against. Would have been funny (I know and tasteless) to have her as someone whose disability also prevents her from censoring her words, like Sofia on GG, she can't help saying whatever hits her mind, imagine the uber polite and uptight Marland characters dealing with that..."Does Iva know the guy she is in love with is a f*g??? And why would he like her, he wears more makeup then she does!!!"

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I never knew that. Do you think Lisa/Brian would have worked? Was Lisa ever involved with any younger men?

I have a Digest, I can't find it at the moment, with Eileen's return party in 1984, and she had Chippendales, and Cris Leblanc had his shirt open and looked out of it...lots of fun.

This is from the February 1978 Rona Barrett's Daytimers (Laufer Publications)

01-26-2011113231AM.jpg

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Hmmm, I don't know about Lisa and a younger man. They flirted with that with Brad Hollister (but he, however, was a big dud!) But Lisa was written so flitty, silly at that time I don't think it would have worked. If they brought out a more sophisticated side to her I could see it. I also think it was in Lisa's character to go for a more serious "older," controlling figure (which she of course would rebel against. Bob, John Eldridge, Grant, Whit McColl, all more serious men (and with bucks.) That is why I don't think Lisa worked with the Farley Granger character. He was way too soft with her, I think she would have been bored senseless.

I think Lisa worked better with younger guys as a mentor figure. As I said before, Marland was always impressed with Fulton's handling of the younger actors, so if he brought someone new in he would have some of their first scenes with her. I though Lisa worked best with the young McColls to work with..Fulton had a young person's energy, and when she just started hanging out with Bob and Kim and Nancy and worst of all, the last Tom actor, who drained the energy out of every scene, it inhibited her. Never understood why Hogan and Gautman reglegated her to the background when their were tons of younger miscreants who she could have mentored.

LOL at her "column!" Also, I never knew she had her own line of loungwear for J.C. Penny of all places. Seems Fulton was ahead of the game in terms of Lucci, etc, and their own line of products. Which I am surprised...she doesn't seem the best business mind in the world.

I am sure Leblanc was in a daze at that time...imagine him surrounded by all those Chippendales manflesh dancers!

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I will never understand why the ATWT writers allowed Lisa and Carly to become antagonists in their relationship with each other. When Carly arrived in Oakdale, she reminded me of a young Lisa Miller and I think it would have resulted in some swell storylines if Lisa and Carly had remained close and Lisa "mentored" Carly over the years. Also, I think a worthy storyline in ATWT's final year would have been Scott Eldridge and Lisa reconnecting and a resolution to their troubled relationship. It could have involved Tom and Margo and other members of the extended Hughes family. I would have loved to have seen Lisa in the final episodes of ATWT with both of her sons. Instead we had our faces rubbed in Julie Pinson and Billy Warlock...

Edited by turnerhughes
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I put this down to FMB (I think this started with her) not knowing or caring about the history of the show. Having Lisa as Carly's judge and jury was a very ABC type of move - it's something you would have seen on AMC. AMC had a long line of older, somewhat snotty women, like Phoebe or Enid. It was also a way to try to remind us that Carly was bad, and that characters like Julia were good.

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Mitch, your comments about Iva always crack me up.

This episode has a little spoof on Iva, in Meg's fantasy. It's at about 46 minutes in.

Wow that Beatrice was very dull wasn't she. I have a tough time believing Lisa would ever go for a double wedding.

Love the Steve/Betsy stuff. I can see why some fans got tired of this weepy, sensitive Craig, but Scott Bryce had such a connection with these women.

I love Ambrose too. One of the best supporting/talk-to characters EVER.

So are Corinne and Monica supposed to be annoying or do the actresses make it worse?

Edited by CarlD2
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LOL on the Iva spoof! So nice to see Lisa Brown get to do comedy again. Why in the world would you take someone who could do comedy so well and saddle her with that drip of a character.

Beatrice was dull, but it is amazing how many of Marland's characters were dull. He just had so much going on (can you imagine that many characters and storylines in one episode?)if you didn't like a character, Lucinda and James would come on and scheme against them soon enough. I know you disagree but friggen Lyla (SNOOZE) and Casey (Double Snooze) Shannon and freakin Uncle Earl. I can only imagine they gave Fulton Earl to get her to stop bitching about a love interest (like Lisa better when she is alone and getting into everyone else's bizness instead the love sick romantic) and reportedly, to give the producer's lover a job. Granger was a great looking older guy, too bad they hadn't cast him as Whit earlier, I could see him doing imperious and cruel. And that throwaway line from Earl..."Dont worry Tom, she has nothing to worry about with me!" I know it is the setup to the "Is Earl trying to scam/kill Lisa," but it sounded like a setup to "Dont worry, we two divas will get along just fine!"

And sigh, Greg Marx, my 18 year old ideal for the perfect gay husband!LOL. What was in Marland's and the TPTB mind to cast boring, short, annoying Scott Holmes as Tom? You go from that big, strapping guy, who actually had a warm chemistry with his family and everyone, with cold, angry Holmes? And Anthony Herrara was freakin' hot back then. I never thought it back then but wow...he was one villian you could see smart women like Babs and Lucinda falling for..(though its weird to see Lucinda kissing him instead of spitting out "JAAAMESS!")

Corrine and her mother were supposed to be annoying. They were North Shore socialites (its amazing how much Marland got right about Chicago and the burbs, you could never fault him for attention to detail.) that Lucinda was trying to get to buy into a deal and James was screwing, I think both of them. It was one of his minor characters that were more caricatures then anything else...(didn't James kill the mother???)

I think the Craig thing was more that it got kind of tired watching him wear his guilt. The stuff he did wasnt THAT bad compared to most soap characters. But I do agree, Bryce has great chemistry with all the women he works with...Frost had way more chemistry with him then her flaring nose husband. I think that Craig WAS hard to reconcile with the Hogan version of Craig..you had to forget Marland's and remember the Dobsons to like his Craig. If they had brought him back as conflicted and not so assholey and evil then it could work (actually the last Craig was closer to Byrces version...despite the writing he gave him a conflict and vunerability then Block ever gave him.)

AMBROSE..as Lucinda would scream out, WAS great! I wonder what happened to the actor that they wrote him out. Was he sick, because he and Jane just disappeared..(I loved the long suffering Jane and her rolling her eyes at her boss.) Lucinda's supporting team were great. They should have gave Lisa a Thelma Ritter type maid who would roll her eyes and sarcastically tell off Lisa..."Oh yes, there is nothing more attractive then some over the hill broad acting like she is still 18...if you need me I will be downstairs at the Mona Lisa bar!"

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It's always weird for me to see James/Lucinda because of that awful rewrite later on which claimed they had an affair about two decades before this, when clearly they had never met. The only good thing about that rewrite was hot Danny Markel, and they fired him!

Do you think you would have preferred Casey with Frannie?

I think, I'm not sure though, that the actor who played Ambrose died in early 1993. To me 1993 was the start of the end for ATWT...

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That rewrite was so stupid..didn't the writers know how to pull up an old episode or old script? They could have still made David Lucinda's lost son, but have James adopt him and bend him to his evil will. LURVED Daniel Markel..why did they fire him for that trashy soft porny looking guy?

I would prefer Casey off the show, he was so freakin boring. Not quite as boring as Seth Snyder, but up there. I always thought that after she found out clean cut, wealthy polite successful Doug Cummings was a psycho that Frannie would look for the opposite, some hot, beefy, blue collar cop, or reporter or fireman, who would be rough around the edges, not polished, good, but not overly polite, that she would find love with a great sex..while the rest of the uber clean cut Hughes family would be a bit suprised at her choice. But they stuck poor Frannie with dull down at the farm Seth! Of course, I woulda made Sabrina a boozed up slut, just as the whole family gathered around in their requisite sweaters to have coffee in the morning and to discuss how the lastest drama in Oakdale is effecting Lily, Sabrina saunters in from a night on the town, reeking of ciggies and gin.."Do I hav to hear about what that dumb clit Lily has got up her arse again?? You know, mummy, I got a pearl necklace myself last night!!!!"

You are right, 1993 was the start of the end. Marland got away from his original premise of the Hughes, Snyders and Walsh familes and brought in so many characters that he didnt want to get rid of that it became too convoluted and it became so dark and dreary. I know its a crime but I HATED Margo's rape. I know, strong women are raped in real life but I didnt need to see that on a soap..some stuff is just too real and raw to deal with. Likewise giving Mac alzheimers. Why do that to one of the few elderly couples on a soap? It started to make me long for the giddy goofy days of the Dobsons second tenure. Didnt help the bad recasts, the new Emily and new Frannie didnt work for me at least.

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That vision of Sabrina would have been a lot of good story - I could see her leading Andy down a bad path and causing conflict in the family. I always thought the idea of Sabrina was to cause conflict but the show didn't entirely want to go there. Like when she schemed to get Seth - this was some heavy stuff, and some might even call it rape.

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And that wasn't even fun!!! Now it would have been cool to have Sabrina be her boring self in front of the family, but at night she is going to bars and slutting it up, and she kind of laughs at the family and their earnestness behind their backs. Of course she would be redeemed, but not after causing all kinds of trouble. Maybe someone like Susan or Lisa, former bad girls, see that Sabrina is not what she says she is, and it causes conflict with Lisa and the family, or since it is Susan Kim wouldnt believe her, etc. The Hugheses needed conflict within the family, that didnt involve a disease of the week or rape.

Sabrina could have been the catalyst to really drive a lot of problems in the family, much like Babs did. But Babs was so entrenched that there still was not that much conflict. Its a lot like the Bauers on GL. I always thought they should have brought back an illegit kid of Ed and Rita's and he would be nothing but trouble. There needed conflict within that family. Its too bad that postMADD that the shows treated both families as outdated and spent of drama, when that was not true.

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I was going to ask if you or anyone else remembered a time - I know this might be going too far back - around 1973 or 1974 when Ellen basically disappeared? I was asking because one of the soap magazines I have from around that time talks to Pat Bruder and she basically says ATWT wrote her out and had nothing to do for her.

That seems odd to me because Ellen's sons and daughters were at the center of ATWT for that entire decade.

I guess this was around the time they had also dumped Barbara Berjer/Claire.

I think Ellen was a very necessary part of the show, in terms of moral balance and being a talk-to (and I also loved her relationship with Lisa), but I guess it's some kind of miracle that she even lasted to 1995.

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That is way too early for me! I do remember reading that Irna Phillips basically wrote the whole Stewart family out when she came back. What would have she thought of the Dobsons turning that around five years later and getting rid of Nancy and Chris in favor of David and Ellen???

We can see now why Fulton had the grandma clause. After Ellen became a grandma...(Bruder was way too young) I think they just kinda got rid of her as it looked ridiculous having a son(s) that old!

I don't know why the Dobson's ignored Lisa and Ellen's "thing." I wish they would have had Lisa have an affair with David!!!

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