As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Paul Raven]

That would be great Carl. Have you been doing some internet shopping for old soap mags?I am tempted myself.I had a bunch of Afternoon Tv's that I threw out!! Also,I need to learn how to scan and post as typing up stuff is time consuming.

BTW don't the Soderbergs look like a fun couple?

[DRW50]

It's a mixture of things I had and things I got.

I had totally forgotten how to scan and then remember again - like riding a bike I guess - when I started deciding to put some of this up. Your history stuff is a big reason why I did. I'm not sure if I can help much with the details on scanning but I know some here can.

Apparently the woman beside Melinda Peterson is Kelly Wood, and the woman beside Judith McConnell is Claire Blackburn, who played I think a nurse? I didn't recognize her without the Mrs. Johnson wig.

[Paul Raven]

ATWT fall from #1 was an interesting time as the formula that worked for over 20 years seemed to fall in a heap.

Even back then Larry B was 'hostile' about the show. He obviously enjoyed the money and the atmosphere because he was always less than impressed with the writing.I think he was a true actor in that he relished the challenge of trying to make John a believable character.

In a later interview, he recounted how ABC tried to lure him to their soaps by offering him primetime roles and he was astonished that they mentioned Love Boat and Fantasy Island as inducements.He said he wasn;t concerned at what John would as long as he could see some motivation for his actions.

Wasn't Clarice Blackburn also a soap writer?

[DRW50]

Yes she was writing for a soap around this time I think. I have an article with her from around this time where she talked about doing both jobs.

I know when Larry quit some said well he doesn't like the job anyway, no big loss, but I think he still respected his work and that was shown when he was willing to come back for the last few months.

I wish we could see these episodes to know what it was that made people begin to lose interest. Too much repetition, or struggles on where to take characters? I just can't believe it's as simple as being too stale or not being hip enough. I wonder if they had waited it out if the ratings would have gone back up.

[Paul Raven]

I think he was offered less money and fewer appearances (no storyline) and he probably thought after 35 years why bother? Can't say I blame him.

AMC really challenged ATWT while Days around that time was also falling off in the numbers. AMC went in direct competition in April 77 and obviously grabbed viewers.

[Mitch]

Well, you could see that Pat Holland character was trouble, she actually had a perm and wore a graphic T-Shirt to Nancy and Chris' backyard!!!STRUMPET!!! She was really sporting the Joyce Dewitt look didn't she???

I know that Larry B has always been trouble, but he really, really added a sense of, "reality," to the show. His John was neither good or bad, hell, he even made the Dobson's material, when it became the John Dixon show, real, and gave John motivation despite the sometimes misogynistic writing for him at that time. I really think that today's writers don't really know how to write for characters like John, Lisa or Lucinda who are shades of good and bad. People can still do shitty things, but the writers make them act like their [!@#$%^&*] don't stink.

I think that AMC kind of co opted ATWT formula and updated it. It was about small town life, and families, and traditional values, but was faster, had campy aspects, etc. I do think that they threw out the baby with the bath water, getting rid of Nancy and Chris and that family feeling. Even GH kept the vets with the goofy stuff going on at that time. The Dobsons got rid of them, but kept the slow pace and the kinda boring feel (I remember particalarly the Dee actress and her long pauses and open mouth staring into the camera) instead of updating the pace and keeping the stucture. Oh, well, four years later Marland showed them how to do it, though none of the idiots in the industry tried to copy him.

[Mitch]

Yea, that was weird, you could see that the storyline was going in the direction of Miranda dieing in Bob's arms but they changed it. I don't think that Miranda was a Dobson character, so I am suprised they wanted to keep her at all, but it was odd, that they married them off and she all of a sudden became this paragon of Oakdale society and then nothing. They did have a little thing where Bob wanted Miranda to live with Nancy and Chris, and Chris didnt want to as he had protected her from the "criminal element," but then he relented. As Helen Wanger was gone by that time, and Don McClaughlin was kicked down to recurring they didn't pick up on anything after that but can you imagine a storyline with exotic criminal Miranda living with iron fist Nancy Hughes? They also had started a little something with Frannie having problems with Miranda but they dropped it.

It is too bad, Miranda could have been a very Lucindaish character, a mixture of good and bad. Running a business but loving her family and trying to protect them, and also butting heads with her mother in law.

[DRW50]

Classic Margo freakout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIK4xrmgYNA&feature=related

[soapfan770]

Going back to the Joe Willmore post judging from what I've heard about his later tenures at SFT and GL I wonder how he was on ATWT. I've heard his It was quite some time ago on the old WOST website that an anecdote about Willmore was recounted where he had a tantrum of sorts at GL in 1989, throwing a chair across the set or something and GL crew and cast members shed no tears upon his exit. He looks and sounds like a pretty mild-mannered middle age exec in the photos.

Edited February 5, 2011 by soapfan770

[DRW50]

That's interesting. I never knew that. I think I read he was the one who had the policy of bringing back a lot of past characters to GL.

[soapfan770]

Heh yeah it's one of those old bits from the WOST forums I still retain. I don't know if you had ever posted on them Carl but looking back there was a lot of active oldtimers with a goldmine of stuff. Too bad we can't use wayback machine on its forums, and shame it became psycho central and a certain one time Days writer & bin Laden lover hijacking the site.

I wonder if any of the later writers ever thought of bringing back Carole to use as a spoiler for Tom and Margo. Granted growing up I only knew Scott Holmes but still pre-Justin Deas Tom is often beyond my imagination.

[DRW50]

I never posted there or read the forums - the most I remember reading was some of the opinion pieces. When I first went there I wanted to see the old soap themes but had a dial-up so would have to watch them sssssslllllloooowwwwllllyyy. I would also make a valiant effort - hours and hours - to get to watch an episode of something. Unfortunately by the time I got the high speed Internet, they had moved to pay, although I think before then I did get to watch the SB earthquake episode and the ATWT episode where Whit McColl's killer was revealed.

It does sound like a fascinating place. At least a lot of that insider info seems to have been passed down even if WoST is gone.

I'm sure that era of GL must have been full of some strange personalities - I remember SOD's 30th anniversary issue mentioned a story where an unnamed actress slapped a SOD staffer in the face.

I wish ATWT had brought Carol back. She would have been a far more believable spoiler for Tom and Margo than boring as hell Taylor. I have seen nothing of Tom pre-Deas, and I don't even know what it would be like, because it is one of the most obvious reboots I've ever seen. Aside from his Vietnam years, NOTHING of Tom's past before 1981 or so was retained. The only other character I can think of who had so much of their past history excised is Ed Bauer on GL.

[Paul Raven]

Natalie, Tom's 2nd wife came back but her past with Tom wasn't played out. She was trying to see her daughter Amy that Carol and Jay had adopted, That was in 81. Marland used Tom's past in Vietnam to create Lien,but that character was also forgotten.

I can't see Justin Deas and Rita McLaughlin as Tom and Carol.Tom had been remade as a different character. Maybe Carol would have had to have been recast also.Anyway,Tom and Carol had well and truly put the past behind them in the 70's when their marriage failed.

[Mitch]

Yea, I just don't see Carol as being a really good rival for Margo. Not only the fact that she was so nice she would never go after someone, but she was so boring and soft, and I think it was always played that the two of them were young and it was a mistake from the start. Tom, even before Deas and Margo, like his women a little more zingy, which makes sense being raised by his control freak grandmother and having Lisa for a mother. Now bringing back JC as Natalie would have been really, really good. The Dobsons or whomever blew it by bringing her back totally miscast. I would have liked to see how Chapman and Colin worked together or HBS....(I think Dolan's Margo would have just wanted to BE the one to sleep with her herself!)

Yea, its werid about Deas, I never thought he was that magnetic but what is it about soaps twisting themselves into knots to write for him? On ATWT the writing made a little sense as I could see Tom being a bit of a hippie, kinda guy, with Lisa for a mom a clean cut lady killer for a dad. Its just too bad they erased his whole sense of being a Hughes, I can not remember a scene he had with Wagner and McLaughlin, and don't really remember a warm relationship with his parents..which is odd, I would think he and Fulton would have been a hoot together, and Hasting can work with anyone and make them look good. On GL it became the Buzz Show and Buzz wasnt that pleasent of a character to begin with.

[DRW50]

I think that Carol would have worked as a reminder of Tom's past and as a contrast to Margo. Like the story with Taylor and Tom while Margo was with Hal. Taylor was so dull and yet she was supposed to be a vixen. Wouldn't it have made more sense if Tom had had to help Carol and been reminded of his past? This would have also been a good way to help introduce Scott Holmes to viewers. Or later on, when they had the difficult transition while Ellen Dolan was gone and Tom ended up quasi-flirting or whatever with Dawn, which was an awkward story. Carol might have fit in there.