As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Mitch]

Those pictures are good but the "quotes," underneath them are hilarious. LOL at that picture of Fulton, trying to be center stage....(and I dont mean to be mean, but just who in the hell told her she could sing well enough to cut an album...I have a feeling she was easy prey for "producers," looking for money.) And geez, boring old Ellen Stewart's real life husband is smoking hot...( I like me the uptight pretty boys.)

[DRW50]

Oakdalian has put up some more November 1992 material. I can see why soapfan said this was depressing - it really is. The stuff with Hal's "death" on top of the implosion of the Snyder family and Ellie's abortion is just tough to watch. Probably the best of this is Ellie's abortion story, the little we see of it (does anyone know who is playing her doctor? He looks like one of the 80's Franks from Ryan's Hope). Wonderful acting from Renee Props, and a serious issue, one we would never hear about on a soap today.

One thing I notice is how badly telegraphed some of this is, moments like Lily repeatedly saying she can't imagine going through this without Iva, or Ellie calling up to talk to the Snyders and Angel gives her a long confessional on how she can never have biological children.

I wasn't overly fond of Tonio's exit. I didn't even know this was his final exit - I thought he left after Bob and Susan operated on him. To have this end in a Raging-Bull type slugfest seems so cheesy to me, like a parody of machismo. I also don't like the part where Duncan keels over and Jessica wakes up gasping. They should have just ended it with Sabrina holding a gun on Tonio and turning him in to the authorities.

It seems like production-wise the show was kind of going downhill at this time.

I did get more of a jolt out of Barbara mourning Hal and tearing into Frannie. I'd heard a little about this but had never actually seen it. It's sad to watch them this way, although I never saw a ton of bonding moments between them (Barbara was usually in her own stories, as was Frannie) so I'm not as invested. I'm sorry this didn't get to play out further. Marland was going to recast Frannie and play out more of this, wasn't he? I wonder where Kim was at this time. I wanted to see her reactions.

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[soapfan770]

After watching that with Tonio I seriously wonder why Marland even bothered. Perhaps Tonio should have remained at the bottom of the sea after all of that. It was 1992 and in the midst of all this serious drama(Duncan with Jessica too!) it was a ridiculous hang on to the 80s.

That brief scene with Rattray's Lily wearing a Halloween sweater leading into Frannie going to Darryl on the ground? That was Holden arriving at the Snyder Farm for the first time since the head injury. If I recall right that episode aired on November 2nd, 1992. Same ep features Ellie's abortion and a drunk Scott bemoaning his life to Lucinda before she left for the Snyder farm. A very somber and sad show indeed, and Lucinda and Iva got into over the role of Lily's mother at the end too. Rattray by this point was playing a whole lot of closer to Bryne, but I think only Martha could pull off the amount of whining Rattray's Lily was doing.

I forgot that Hal died right after this. I had remembered it being a little later or in early '93 but I do remember he came back just in time for Will's birth. As it turned out, friendly and mousy Vicki Harper had ordered her best friend Carolyn to be killed with Gavin Kruger going along with it. I don't remember what happened to the Harpers in the end though.

If I recall right the Snyder family basically ending up disowning Ellie. A fascinating tragic story but I think it ended up ruining Ellie as an unforeseen result. It was a little weird to me at first that Kirk still would have kept the child even if born deformed or disabled but now it makes perfect sense at it would have given him a fresh start and second chance after abandoning his daughters.

[DRW50]

They all disowned Ellie? Even Seth? That sucks. It seems like the family was going in a more and more judgmental, cold direction. I wonder what Marland had planned for them if he'd lived.

I think Rattray's colder demeanor cut through the Lily whining that I hated with Byrne, but by this time Lily had clearly become a plot device. Although honestly she always was a plot device.

Heartbreaking work from Rex Smith and Mary Ellen Stuart here.

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[soapfan770]

Yeah I remember Ellie got totally humiliated in front of everyone at a dinner party when Kirk exposed her having an abortion to everyone. Ellie was missing at that big Snyder 1994 Thanksgiving dinner I think. Not sure what Marland had planned, given almost all of the Snyders were written out in 1994/1995.

What exactly happened to Gavin Kruger anyways? I don't remember at the moment.

[P.J.]

Pretty sure Krueger simply went to jail off-screen.

Ellie was my least favorite Snyder. I think any censure she got from her family was over the fact she lied to Kirk about the abortion. I think this was after Lily's miscarriage (and lord knows Lily's feelings were always to be put first by everyone she knew...) and while Iva was raising two toddlers practically on her own.

Ellie looked like a selfish slacker.

[DRW50]

I think one of the reasons I liked Ellie is because...well, I'm not really sure why I liked her at the time. When I watch now, although I prefer Iva, I like that Renee Props plays so much of Ellie's quiet pain and unease. She added a lot to what were very predictable stories like the "triangle" with Craig and Sierra.

What I do wonder about is, long-term, if she really fit into the Snyder family. I know she was close to Caleb but other than that it seemed like they didn't develop these angles.

I also wonder if they may have been better off not keeping Ellie/Kirk as a couple. I don't know. They don't ever seem overly happy for a fun-loving couple, with some exceptions, like their wedding. Kirk/Iva seemed genuinely happier.

The abortion story is one I wish had gone on a little longer, but most of all I wish she would have told the family it wasn't their concern. Then again maybe she gave a big lecture to Iva about the Aaron lie, so she would be a hypocrite if she told people to butt out.

Edited August 5, 2011 by CarlD2

[Mitch]

This is actually when I stopped watching the show. GL was having an upsurge at the time and it was everything a soap should be, dramatic stories involving several families with some camp and one liners thrown in to break up the "drama." I will give Marland props, he does know this show and there is usually always the saftey net of family and friends there to cushion the blow, (i.e. Lisa calling and going over to Babs house to be with her.

LOL...Marland was always telegraphing his stories, but that was actually one of the things I loved about his ATWT, it was a formula but it somehow worked.

Tonio had to be the dullest bad guy around. It just wasnt a parody of machisimo, it was like this was more like Marland's masturbatory fantasy of how "butch," guys would act.

I don't know, but as I said, this was the time I dropped ATWT from my viewing and never really got back into it for a length of time (which is weird, as I always think ATWT and GL as my shows, and no matter how bad GL got, I always watched it.

I

This was actually interesting and a good scene and storyline. Finally someone called a "good," character out for their selfish acts. I would have liked to have seen this develop. Zenk is really good at this and the Frannie actress is better then I thought. This scene seems more GL then ATWT, with two people talking and having a convo..ATWT would always have people coming in and out of a scene, though Marland does throw in his patented phone calls into the scene (lets see, my sister just accused me of being partially responsible for her husband's death, and I pick up the phone??? Frannie, let the answering machine pick it up!!! )

[P.J.]

The thing about Barbara and Frannie was that Frannie had gotten on her moral high horse about Babs' ONS with Darryl, resulting in Jennifer, and lying to Frannie about it when Frannie was getting close to Darryl. At the point it happened, it wasn't any of Frannie's business, and she herself had developed feelings for Darryl while he was married to Caroline.

[DRW50]

From the March 1973 Afternoon TV.

[DRW50]

[JellicleCat]

Wasn't it Irna who wrote the story where Bob impregnated both his wife Jennifer and his sister-in-law Kim around the same time? That doesn't sound like a very moral story to me!

[Paul Raven]

Lisa had a fling with Ralph in 1988.First time around,about 10 years previously, Ralph had been involved with Joyce.It was quite bizarre that Keith Charles was brought back for this.

Seth and Angel's wedding.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

Nice photos. I hadn't seen the one of Ralph. I think he was back around 1991. I don't know the point of that either. Didn't they say he was Earl's brother?

This may have already been mentioned, but I was looking through some synopses of mid or late September or early October 1993, and was surprised at some part about Duncan going to Montega to try to find Hans, and Sabrina warns Duncan of Hans' approach, and this ending in a big fight between the two of them and Hans over a gun, and explosives are about to go off, and there's a fire, and so on.

I had no idea or had forgotten that Sabrina was on the show again after her appearance at Andy/Courtney's wedding. Was this boring Claire Beckman again, or was this another actress? Does anyone know?

The way they throw Duncan/Sabrina together like this I wonder if Marland planned to pair them or put them in a triangle with Jess. I can't see him ever doing that horrible story with Shannon's return.

[Michael]

Were Frannie and Sabrina magically no longer lookalikes after Julianne Moore left the show?