23 minutes ago, BillBauer said:

Which is why I found the "evil spa" and "rapid aging serum" storyline so egregious. On a show like Days, it would just be a normal Tuesday but on ATWT it was such an aberration for a show that (outside of a year or two in the early to mid 80s) was perhaps the most realistic of all soaps. 

 

Same.  I know that it was popular with quite a number of fans that were still watching the show but I really wonder whether it would be as popular if the show had not been, in general, so dreadful by then.

Sheffer got a lot of hype because he made the show so plot and stunt driven. Anyone else would have gotten torn to shreds for some of the things the soap press let him get away with in the early 00's.

 

The equally AWFUL Leah Laiman did him a favour in many ways - making the show so boring, yet ridiculously plotted. People had become accustomed to the show having a ridiculous element, but Sheffer's hype machine and stunts were better done. 

Edited June 29, 20205 yr by BetterForgotten

55 minutes ago, RavenWhitney said:

The story should have been that Casey was gay and couldn't handle his sexuality and married his mommy/armpiece.  

During the CarJack reunion MP said that JH had told him Jack would be gay since they couldn't find him a leading lady. MP was stunned but bought it.😂 Jack would've made a great gay male and they could've hooked him up with Casey.

 

MP and BS as a couple??😁

58 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

LOL yep. 

 

I felt like a lot of men on Marland's ATWT were ready to burst out of the closet, or Marland lowkey wanted them to be and couldn't, which was obvious in certain stories. 

A lot? How about all of them...lol

47 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

A lot? How about all of them...lol

 

lmao true!

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Same.  I know that it was popular with quite a number of fans that were still watching the show but I really wonder whether it would be as popular if the show had not been, in general, so dreadful by then.

 

Of course, everybody's tastes are different but I consider it a low point for the show. I was perplexed when Kelly Menighan, Martha Byrne and/or Maura West talked about the storyline in fond terms during one or more of the Locher episodes. They seemed to imply it was innovative. I just thought it was ridiculous. 

13 minutes ago, BillBauer said:

 

Of course, everybody's tastes are different but I consider it a low point for the show. I was perplexed when Kelly Menighan, Martha Byrne and/or Maura West talked about the storyline in fond terms during one or more of the Locher episodes. They seemed to imply it was innovative. I just thought it was ridiculous. 

 

I took it as, they're actresses who wanted to work and they likely had formed a camaraderie on set because they had only each other to work with during that time and probably actually got along. Sometimes that's all it takes to paper over the rest of the dreck. 

 

It was really interesting to hear Colleen Zenk talk about those ridiculous Barbara storylines with fondness for years but in her most recent livestream, she discussed why she often talked about it in such glowing terms and it was because she had been going through a lot of upheaval in her personal life and work had become a lifeline, of sorts. She also enjoyed working with Trent Dawson who proved to be highly supportive during a very vulnerable time for her. Listening to her recount all of the traumatic things that had been going on in her life made it very clear, for the first time, why she felt the way she did. Sometimes it's not even about the quality of the work but the fact that the work was there when it was needed the most.

22 minutes ago, BillBauer said:

 

Of course, everybody's tastes are different but I consider it a low point for the show. I was perplexed when Kelly Menighan, Martha Byrne and/or Maura West talked about the storyline in fond terms during one or more of the Locher episodes. They seemed to imply it was innovative. I just thought it was ridiculous. 

Whether right or wrong it brought the show buzz and out of the ratings spiral. The show jump back to #3 in the ratings. 

 

FMB started off really well in 1997 and got the show quickly to #4 and  it started feeling like Marland ATWT but it soon fell of the rails.

Now that I think about it, those spa scenes with Lily, Emily and Carly isolated and trapped in on space with basically only themselves and one occasional dayplayer probably looks a lot like what might happen in soaps during this pandemic.

 

All the things that we've complained about over the years, about characters never interacting and being in their own bubbles seems like something the remaining daytime soaps might dig in further now.

4 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

LOL yep. 

 

I felt like a lot of men on Marland's ATWT were ready to burst out of the closet, or Marland lowkey wanted them to be and couldn't, which was obvious in certain stories. 

As a young teen watching the show back then. Most of the men gave me a gay vibe. I thought it was just me. Seeing things that weren't there.

 

4 hours ago, BillBauer said:

 

 

Which is why I found the "evil spa" and "rapid aging serum" storyline so egregious. On a show like Days, it would just be a normal Tuesday but on ATWT it was such an aberration for a show that (outside of a year or two in the early to mid 80s) was perhaps the most realistic of all soaps. 

I liked the idea of James taking care of Barbara's enemies. I loved the friendships between the ladies. But all the high camp at the spa. Wasn't ATWT it was very Days. 

It seemed like Marland could write vibrant women, but had trouble with the male characters.  I will say Casey and Lyla didn't have chemistry, but I liked how slowly they were paired with Lyla being the one insecure and caring what others thought.  Given her past, I kind of bought her being gun shy.  What did people think of her and Cal?  

 

And when watching some of 1989, I saw Duke's intro...and it was a shame he came in as Martha was leaving as Lily..since the two sparked in their initial scenes together..imho.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

It seemed like Marland could write vibrant women, but had trouble with the male characters.  I will say Casey and Lyla didn't have chemistry, but I liked how slowly they were paired with Lyla being the one insecure and caring what others thought.  Given her past, I kind of bought her being gun shy.  What did people think of her and Cal?  

 

And when watching some of 1989, I saw Duke's intro...and it was a shame he came in as Martha was leaving as Lily..since the two sparked in their initial scenes together..imho.  

 

I don't really think Casey and Lyla had hot chemistry, but I think the story was interesting in showing her choosing between love and career, and her interactions with his very traditional family. I thought Shanks and Sward worked well together in emotional scenes. The one downside is that Casey was basically more of a plot device and never really seemed like his own character, but he was pleasant and a good balance to the more hyperdramatic members of the family, like Margo. 

 

I don't think most Marland-created couples had incredible chemistry, although there were some who had their moments (Jessica/Duncan, Frannie/Daryl, Lucinda/John, Emily/Brock). He wasn't that type of writer. And I'm not sure ATWT was usually that type of show in the first place. There are couples that were beloved and apparently were meant to have burning chemistry and I'm just ??? when I watch them, like Betsy and Steve. But that's just me - I know a lot of people loved them and loved Holden and Lily, so no judgment on my part. 

 

The one time I would say I wish Marland had been a bit more Sheffer-esque is that I wish he'd let his younger characters sleep around with more people. But then this was at the peak of the AIDS crisis, so I guess Marland never would have done that.

 

Lyla and Cal were a pleasant background pairing but mostly seemed like a combo of marking time and wanting to tell more stories about Cal's big business ties after those had already been done with Cal and Emma. I kind of wish they'd kept him with Emma longer as I thought Patrick Tovatt and Kathleen Widdoes had a certain charm and sweetness, which Emma needed by that point as the Snyders were so heavy. 

Edited June 30, 20205 yr by DRW50

I thought Casey and Frannie would've made a nice pair. I know the feelings there were one-sided before Lyla came into the picture. Casey sure had more of a personality compared to Seth. 

 

I'm happy we got Casey and Lyla though. Their NYC trip is one of those iconic episodes I look back on with fondness. 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

I don't really think Casey and Lyla had hot chemistry, but I think the story was interesting in showing her choosing between love and career, and her interactions with his very traditional family. I thought Shanks and Sward worked well together in emotional scenes. The one downside is that Casey was basically more of a plot device and never really seemed like his own character, but he was pleasant and a good balance to the more hyperdramatic members of the family, like Margo. 

 

I don't think most Marland-created couples had incredible chemistry, although there were some who had their moments (Jessica/Duncan, Frannie/Daryl, Lucinda/John, Emily/Brock). He wasn't that type of writer. And I'm not sure ATWT was usually that type of show in the first place. There are couples that were beloved and apparently were meant to have burning chemistry and I'm just ??? when I watch them, like Betsy and Steve. But that's just me - I know a lot of people loved them and loved Holden and Lily, so no judgment on my part. 

 

The one time I would say I wish Marland had been a bit more Sheffer-esque is that I wish he'd let his younger characters sleep around with more people. But then this was at the peak of the AIDS crisis, so I guess Marland never would have done that.

 

Lyla and Cal were a pleasant background pairing but mostly seemed like a combo of marking time and wanting to tell more stories about Cal's big business ties after those had already been done with Cal and Emma. I kind of wish they'd kept him with Emma longer as I thought Patrick Tovatt and Kathleen Widdoes had a certain charm and sweetness, which Emma needed by that point as the Snyders were so heavy. 

 

Emma had no purpose after a few years on the show..phrasing the Snyder's should have been the first order of business when Marland passed away.  

19 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

Emma had no purpose after a few years on the show..phrasing the Snyder's should have been the first order of business when Marland passed away.  

 

They basically were phased out - by the end of 1993 Iva, Angel and Seth were written out, while Ellie and Meg just had visits. By late 1995 only Emma was left, and the Kasnoffs were being pushed as the new lead family.

 

I still think Emma worked as a talk-to and a supporting character, but Kathleen Widdoes was a good enough actress to where she could have easily done much more. It's unfortunate that her one lead story in this time period was boring and also not really about her (dull Ned and his dull daughter Debbie). 

Edited June 30, 20205 yr by DRW50

Emma was sort of the flip side of Lisa. Lisa took in "bad" girls. Emma took in the "good" girls/runaways. Seriously, if there was one trope Marland ran into the ground, it was the "rich girl who finds herself" at the farm.