6 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

Barbara jumping through the window will never not be funny.

It was funny as hell but that was jump the shark moment. I thought ATWT has completely lost what it once was(Hogan had completely ruined this show unless it was Pissy who was writing at time...cant recall). I did like Barbara calling everyone else hypocrites.

 

 

It was Hogan. You could tell because of the stench.

25 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It was Hogan. You could tell because of the stench.

 

I don't even have to watch the scene and I remember it. It was so memorable in such a terrible way with Barbara practically channeling Grouch Marx before jumping out the window. 

 

The show truly had its ultimate jump the shark moment. It could only make its final descent from there.

Colleen must have been so grateful for both Douglas Marland and Hogan Sheffer. Both head writers took her from far-back burner and put her front and center on the show.

I didn't think Barbara was backburnered before Marland arrived...maybe in a rut because she'd been through every Perils of Pauline story variation other than literally being tied to the railroad tracks. But I'm sure she was grateful to have Babs' segue into a bitch. I'm sure it's boring playing a perpetual doormat.

 

Yes, Culliton was coHW for Sheffer's first year. Replacing her with Pissypants was arguably one of the worst behind-the-scenes moves ever. All the accolades went to Sheffer's head, character motivation slowly eroded away, and he ended up simply cannibalizing his own stories for the next four years. 

1 hour ago, Scrapple said:

Colleen must have been so grateful for both Douglas Marland and Hogan Sheffer. Both head writers took her from far-back burner and put her front and center on the show.

Caroline Franz and John Saffron wrote for Barbara when they were HWs of ATWT in 1983. It was during the whole James/Barbara/Gunnar time. I know CZ didn't think Gunnar was all that though. Bridget and Jerome Dobson might have started the story in the fall of 1982.

6 minutes ago, P.J. said:

 

 

Yes, Culliton was coHW for Sheffer's first year. Replacing her with Pissypants was arguably one of the worst behind-the-scenes moves ever. All the accolades went to Sheffer's head, character motivation slowly eroded away, and he ended up simply cannibalizing his own stories for the next four years. 

Replacing Culliton with Pissy was ATWT nail in the coffin. Once Culliton left ATWT went downhill and pretty fast. I think Pissy was Co-HW in name only. Sheffer didn't have Culltion to reign him in. And it didn't help that Goutman had his own agenda and didn't care about the vision of ATWT.

Edited April 26, 20178 yr by Soapsuds

Watching Barbara jump through that window shatters my heart.  I wish Hogan Sheffer had been allowed to kill her off instead of turning her into not just a bitch but a psycho bitch.

Edited April 26, 20178 yr by Khan

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

Watching Barbara jump through that window shatters my heart.  I wish Hogan Sheffer had been allowed to kill her off instead of turning her into not just a bitch but a psycho bitch.

 

Given what a talentless hack Sheffer was, her death would have been handled even worse. 

So wait, now it's Jean Passanante's fault that Hogan Sheffer was a sh!tass headwriter?

I think it's highly unlikely ATWT would have ever continued past 2010 regardless of who was writing or producing.

Edited April 26, 20178 yr by All My Shadows

15 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

So wait, now it's Jean Passanante's fault that Hogan Sheffer was a sh!tass headwriter?

I think it's highly unlikely ATWT would have ever continued past 2010 regardless of who was writing or producing.

If P&G gave a damn, something could've been done 

22 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

. I think Pissy was Co-HW in name only. Sheffer didn't have Culltion to reign him in. And it didn't help that Goutman had his own agenda and didn't care about the vision of ATWT.

 

Looks like, and judging her post-Sheffer work, I'd say she was HW in name only. I don't think Goutman "didn't care", but in implementing his "vision" (or trying to reinvent the wheel) he forgot the first commandment of writing---tell the story.

 

AMS---it's not Pissy's fault Sheffer was a sh!tass writer. Given her track record, she's just as sh!tty as him---if not more so.  Maybe it's more fair to say it's her fault she's a weak, sh!tty writer who when combined with Sheffer, made some kind of unholy trifecta of suck instead of even a cursory attempt at storytelling.

I will defend a lot of what Sheffer did, including his very controversial 'makeovers' of certain characters with marquee talent like Craig and Rosanna - at least at first. I thought the show was incredibly smart and compelling. It felt adult when I watched it, and when I would turn back to my beloved OLTL on ABC that show often felt like kiddie shït at the time.

 

But I think the bloom came off the rose very fast. Without known soap commodities backstopping him in the writers' room Sheffer had a diminishing bag of tricks, and it can't be denied that those recast makeovers had fundamental problems which became systemic. I understood all the reasons people critiqued what was done with Craig - largely valid ones - and I think Scott Bryce should've been allowed to return to the role when Block left, especially since IMO Bryce is ultimately a much more layered and nuanced actor. Other characters, like Dusty, were fundamentally broken and I think the worm began to turn when they foolishly went after Roger Howarth for Paul, despite Scott Holroyd being a fan favorite. The Todd Lite angle never worked and the character never recovered. When they then tried to fully pair Howarth with Cady McClain due to their sparkling chemistry (which it must be said I felt he also had with Martha Byrne), they turned the characters into a collective vanilla smoothie by way of a terrible story. That was the last time he was remotely relevant.

 

I think ATWT went to the dogs around '04 and never recovered. And Sheffer never did either - not at DAYS, certainly not at Y&R.

Edited April 27, 20178 yr by Vee

I know some did, but I didn't as much object to the "reset" of most of the characters Sheffer brought back---it was the lack of foundation he gave for these changes. Craig turned dark again because he felt overlooked as Montega's "First Sir"? I don't think we ever got an explanation for Dusty, and Paul vaporized overnight with a recast and a broken heart over Rose. RME. (Frankly I loved McClain, and that reset wasn't even Sheffer's doing.)

 

The fact Block couldn't find a human emotion if he bit into it, or Howarth was Toddian are separate issues for me.

 

Sheffer couldn't write a complete story. Maybe functionally, it's Goutman's fault for not finding a strong, complimentary writer to address those flaws. Stories never really "springboarded" into a logical progression for the characters.

IDK why, but I just felt insulted to see Craig regress as a human being after all the efforts the show had made post-Steve/Betsy/Craig triangle to rehabilitate him.  I don't watch soaps to see characters regress or remain as they were for years and years.  I watch to see them evolve as we all do.

Khan, I agree. Hunt Block, although entertaining in a way, made Craig a one-note caricature. There was nothing more cringe-inducing than watching him attempt real emotion (e,g. Bryant's death). Jeffrey Meek was actually not bad..he just wasn't Craig. He probably would have been a good long-lost son of Stenbeck. Jon Lindstrom committed the unpardonable sin of making Craig boring.

 

The less said about Roger Howarth, the better.