As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I tried to watch an episode from 1996 last year and it was so damn boring and there were some characters that I couldn't remember who the hell they were and I wasn't interested in going back to episodes early enough for me to find out.

 

It's really sad because at a certain point after 94, you realize that ATWT becomes pretty much unwatchable, for the most part.

[Soapsuds]

The return of Holden was nicely done and so was the Diego ending but after that the show went downhill. She fired ART and it just got worse from there.

[All My Shadows]

I don't think the show ever became as unwatchable as some soaps became or are currently, but that's just me. 2005-2006 was mostly decent soap and definitely one of the better shows of the time.

[slick jones]

Bryce was doing some Murphy Brown after he left, too. I liked Craig with Ellie, Sierra and Lucinda.

[NothinButAttitude]

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Many of Marshall/Jessica's arc has been uploaded.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Nothin'ButAttitude

[DRW50]

I was looking around on Youtube and saw a fan opening that had Jessica Tuck as Sierra.

 

Oh what might have been...

[DramatistDreamer]

Jessica and Marshall were tragic. I can only watch bits and pieces, it angers me to no end what the writers did with Marshall and with that entire relationship, so except for an occasional clip, I cannot even watch. I'm glad both actors moved onto better things and Tamara Tunie was smart to ride with L&O.

[DeeeDee]

 

"Complicated" relationships are solely the providence of white characters.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I wasn't entirely satisfied with how Roy and Jessica's relationship was written but at least Marland had sense enough not to demonize either character. 

 

Now that I come to think of it, Roy and Jessica had some complicated undertones to what connected them and what (perceivably) drove them apart, compared to what would follow a decade or so later with most couples on the show.

 

To be honest, I slightly disagree that complications were the domain of white characters only. Even though there was a lot lacking in Roy and Jess' romantic relationship, each had a complicated relationship with his/her family. Marland did do that pretty well.

 

I can't speak for the disaster that followed in the last 12-13 years or so.

[DRW50]

The Jessica/Marshall stuff bothered me because I felt like the story existed to degrade Jessica, as that was how Sheffer saw women. I don't know what the plans were for the rape storyline, or if it was supposed to even be seen as rape. I felt sorry for Lamman Rucker, although at least he found better work elsewhere.

[DeeeDee]

The Jessica/Marshall story was complex (even with Sheffer involved). The performances by all involved (especially Tamara Tunie & Lamman Rucker) kept the overall story from slipping into

 

If any story of that era degraded Jessica (and Margo) it was the one directly after the Marshall debacle with Doc.

[DeeeDee]

 

There are a huge amount of "tortured" white men & "scrappy" white women (both as individuals & couples) in the history of Daytime.

 

The same can't be said for characters of color in daytime who are never allowed similar resources, ie, copious airtime, quality of writing & malleable value systems.

 

Why hasn't there been an Japanese John Dixon? Or an Nigerian Rachel Hutchins? Or a Peruvian Luke Spencer?

 

Because characters of color are either saints or sinners morally that exist as tokens who are trotted out for half an episode every couple days a month as "proof" of the show's "diversity."

 

The occasional character and/or family of color will sometimes become popular but that's largely due to the actors performances.

[DramatistDreamer]

@DeeeDee In a way, we're talking about slightly different things.

 

Overall, yes, of course, I agree with what you're saying but I wasn't making generalizations, I am talking specifically about the characters that ATWT had, namely Roy and Jessica and later Jessica and Marshall.

 

ATWT could always have done better and especially in the last 15 years of the show, there was no excuse for them not to do better.

 

Even regarding my complaints about the deficiencies in the writing for many of the Black characters, on the show, when I look at what Marland was writing for ATWT's Black characters in the 80s vs. what Bill Bell Sr. was writing on Y&R for the Black characters in the 80s-- hands down, Marland did a superior job. Despite my issues with the exit storylines for certain characters like Heather (who should've stayed), ATWT did a lot more with her character than Y&R did with Amy and thankfully there were no Kongs on ATWT!

 

Lien, despite being played by a Chinese American actress and not a Vietnamese, was not written as a token.

 

Of course, daytime should have done better as a whole but at this point, in this thread, I really am being specific to these particular characters and their histories.

 

As for a Japanese John Dixon, John for many years, was a terrible person, he raped his wife Kim, so I could imagine the complaints that would happen had John been portrayed by a man of color. The backlash would probably have been sizeable.

[DeeeDee]

I understood what you meant about Roy & Jessica breaking up.

 

My point was, if Roy & Jessica's relationship & breakup was as complex and well written as you feel it was they would be better remembered as a couple today,

 

However I'd argue that Bill Bell & Marland were about even in their approach to writing Black characters in the 80s. Marland's Black characters were intimate & earnest (bordering almost on pastoral) where Bill Bell's Black characters were stylish and playful yet still very soulful. In feel ATWT's characters were closer to St. Elsewhere by way of Working Girl while Bill Bell's characters were more Miami Vice meets Broadcast News.

 

I agree that Lien wasn't a token (neither were Mai & Keemo Volien on Y&R or An Li Chen on AMC) but that didn't afford any of them significant airtime or longevity either.

 

 

The backlash would've indeed been sizeable but someone has to be the first. Denying characters of color opportunities to explore and express their full humanity is one of the main reasons why daytime soaps are in permanent decline.

[DramatistDreamer]

@DeeeDeeI don't go for the popular couples by daytime fans standards (never did), but that's just me. If I was all about popular couples I would've watched General Hospital.

 

Just because a character isn't heralded by the masses doesn't mean they're not well written. A lot of people I've seen posting on You Tube don't know Roy or even Roy and Jessica because they weren't watching at that time and in the last 15 years, ATWT had a poor grasp on the show's history. Many of ATWT's later fans didn't even know who Duncan McKechnie was, other than Bonnie's father.  I can't vouch for why people remember or don't remember a particular couple and I disagree that there is an inherent connection to whether the writing was complex. People, particularly soap fans have various reasons why they cling to a certain couple (or not), that's not for me to say.

 

In any case, ATWT was never a soap that relied on couples too often.  Bob and Kim were individual characters who became known before they became a couple, even though they became tentpole characters who became known as a couple later on.

 

And Jessica and Roy weren't known for being a couple (and that's more than okay, imo), they were known as two individual characters who got together during a specific time. Perhaps Count Stovall left before a reconciliation happened but I thought it was a mistake for them to break Jessica and Roy up, especially seeing that Duncan and Jessica wouldn't last but Marland did this to a lot of other couples, he tended to break people up frequently and even long term couples like Tom and Margo spent massive amounts of time apart.

 

Like I said, ATWT was not a "couples soap".  At least, not during its best written years.

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by DramatistDreamer