HBO: Game of Thrones

[Vee]

I personally thought Sansa thought Jon would react badly to any invocation of Littlefinger, and distrust the information. I didn't necessarily read it as distrust of Jon, but wanting to do things her way without interference.

 

I forgot Arya! I've tired of her storyline over the last year-plus because to me it was clear Arya would and should reject the way of the Faceless Men and take back her name and her family and find her own path. She came close to this last year but failed, and here we are again so my interest is finally piqued - I felt like that was all this was leading to this week and I hope they finally get there soon, because she needs to move on. Essie Davis, star of The Babadook, played the actress Arya is tasked to kill - she's incredible. (Also cute: The Faux Joffrey twink with the big dick. Thanks, HBO!)

Edited May 23, 2016 by Vee

[Juliajms]

Another small difference is in the book Hodor's real name is Walder. I'm pretty sure he's a Frey, although I'm not sure it was spelled out. I think even on the show he's meant to be a Frey, since we've seen so many variations of Walder among that house. I've always liked that this show doesn't really subscribe to the idea that a person has to be bad just because someone in their family is awful. Another example is Podrick being a Payne.

 

As for the Lord of Light, I think it is going somewhere, although I can't guess where. It's hard to see that entity on the side of right and justice, but I think maybe it's true. He does have a few similarities with the Old Testament Christian God. I suspect all the Gods are real. We've seen the power of the old gods, The Lord of Light, and the Winter King. I think we've even seen the power of the Seven, considering kinslayers don't tend to fare too well. The scene with Rob killing the Karstark comes to mind with the pouring rain and being cursed.

 

Anyway, I want to believe in The Seven because that means Walder Frey the senior and Ramsey are thoroughly f*cked.

 

That leads me to the fan theory (obviously stop reading if you don't like these, but speculation, not spoilers)

 

that Tyrion is a Targaryan. I'm starting to believe it. Partially because he killed Tywin and also because the dragons didn't eat him. Plus we know Aerys had access to Joanna. She must have been in King's Landing, since Tywin was Hand. Also a few of Tywin's lines made me think he knows. "Because I could not prove that you are not mine" said to Tyrion.

 

Also the way he derisively said "my children" that one time.  I almost wonder if they are all Aerys and that's why Tywin had Elia's children killed so brutally. Plus the incest between Cersei and Jamie and the idea that every time a Targaryan is born the gods flip a coin to see if they are good or mad. Could anything be more true of Jamie, Cersei, Tyrion, Joffery, Myrcella and Tommen? Oh, and maybe Jamie's children are dying like flies because he killed his father and king?

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Juliajms

[Vee]

I wonder if we'll get more details on the war with the Children of the Forest and the creation of the White Walkers beyond what was very quickly rushed out tonight. I do hope so.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

The "Hodor" thing sounds legit like something GRRM told them. The rest of the seasons seems completely made up or a wild exaggeration of scenes from the book.

 

The Kingsmoot and the character of Euron are a complete letdown. He's not the sauve silky criminal that he is in the novels. The way he out right admitted that he murdered Balon and then said he wanted to kill Theon and Asha sounded weird to me.

 

The Dany scene was moving. Arya remains as pointless as usual. I would have rather had more of King's Landing. 

 

I do wonder how Bran and Meera can survive out there on their own. They don't even have Summer...:( 

[Skin]

This season is better than last, but there are still a few things that aren't tracking for me, but they are relatively minor. Bran is really injecting some much needed life to this Walker's drama, which is pointedly needed, because it's always been the weakest part of the series. Jon facing off against them last season, and then basically acting as if they didn't exist because no one would believe him crippled the progression of this story. But it's being brought back. *Is it Bran or Rickon,  I can't tell because these two children always felt the most ignored in the series). I don't know how much traction the show is going to get out of Jon the reluctant ruler story, they seem to be going, but I am hoping it ends soon. He's the character I feel the audience is the most invested seeing take what is his and create order in the north.

 

I am so happy to hear Dany being connected to Westeros in a larger context with the Greyjoy's, now that she may finally have Mereen and the Dothroaki secured and all of Slaver's Bay united, she is the one I am most excited about taking over and exerting control over the ridiculousness going on with Cersi, Jamie and Tyrell's. Ever since Tywin died, I can't be bothered to care about that mess anymore with the capital and the High Sparrow. I just need Dany to take control of it and have that be the end of it.

 

Ramsey finally has a purpose, for the first time in I don't know how long, I finally feel he has a reason to be on this show outside of gratuitous torture porn, and the show having the biggest crush on him. He is still a worthless character, but there is some utility in him in that he is finally becoming this big bad that unites the Stark children. This almost makes all the airtime he consumed in the previous seasons worth it. Almost.  

 

Is it wrong that I wanted Sansa to make the deal with Little Finger? They need a bigger army to destroy Ramsey, and if they fail she will just go right back to whatever horror Ramsey will inflict on her. The north is fractured. She needs as much help as she can get.

 

I get what you are saying but I am not there yet. Sansa has not had a break out moment where she has felt as if she was in complete control, they may be building to that, but even now she still feels as if she is an instrument or an accessory to move chess pieces where they may.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Skin

[YRBB]

Yes, the Hodor explanation came straight from Martin. 

 

Hodor's eyes weren't white when he was holding the door.

 

How did he not change the present, though? Because he warged into Hodor in the past, Hodor in the present was completely mentally incapacitated. We don't know the extent of the ability (there are theories) but he can certainly have a certain... influence.

[Juliajms]

Because Hodor has been mentally incapacitated since we know him. Nothing has changed. Time travel talk gets so confusing, but the way I see it the change Bran made happened in the past at the moment he made it happen.

 

Any change he makes will be something that makes the present what it is, but doesn't actually change the present as we know it. So yes, he can influence the past to make this present what it already is as opposed to what it would have been if he had not changed it. Lord, I feel like I'm talking about Star Trek or 12 Monkeys.

 

I watched again. I'd like the show runners to spell it all out for us, but I don't think Bran was controlling Hodor when he held the door. As YRBB pointed out Bran warged into Hordor in the past, so he saw how important it was for him to hold the door. In the present his eyes went white for just a second and then they went back to his own color.

[Juliajms]

This person explains it better than I can. Time loop!

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/game-thrones-exactly-happened-hodor-time-loop-061313659.html

 

It does make me wonder if Bran can visit the future and then come back and help change any mistakes that are made in trying to defeat the white walkers.  IDK, I do like the series 12 Monkeys, but I hope there isn't too much time travel in GoT.

[quartermainefan]

Having been a comic book nerd, time travel is something I can deal with no problem.   This reminds me of the finale of LOST in that time is not so straightforward.   Bran went back into the past but simultaneously he and Hodor were in the present.   It was Bran's actions in the past which allowed Hodor to be what he is in the present, thus triggering Bran's need to warg into Hodor in the first place which is what caused the events that caused Hodor to become Hodor in the past.   Theoretically, if Bran traveled further into the past and prevents his own birth somehow, that would cause a time paradox and signal the end of the universe

 

[Juliajms]

I guess we have to hope that Coldhands is around and will help Bran get to the wall.

[Vee]

GOT showrunners say Martin revealed three huge twists to them from the future of the books - one was Hodor, the other the burning of Shireen - with a third to come.

[Juliajms]

Damn. I was hoping Shireen would meet a different fate in the books, although when Davos helps Robert's bastard (can't remember his name in the books) escape it makes sense that Shireen ends up screwed.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Hmmn. Not sure I believe the Shireen one but then again the emotional impact of it is pretty much gone now thanks to the show. And in the books she's not even that well developed so I guess it could work. Plus it's not major at all so in a way I'm glad the terrible writers got that small morsel.

 

Thankfully that only leaves one more thing which is prob to do with the White Walkers I'd assume and the war to come. 

 

Its funny how how little emphasis they've placed in the direwolves.

 

Lastly people keep hyping Sansa up here and all over the "critics" websites but it's the biggest false narrative I've seen with this season. She's barely any different from last season. She couldn't even say out loud that Ramsay raped her. Her trying to manipulate Jon or confronting Davos sounded way more aggressive than necessary considering they're all on the same side. And of course Littlefinger managed to sow that little kernel of doubt about Jon in her mind....if this is "strong intelligent Sansa" I find it hilarious.

 

Meanwhile they show the ugliest ever man parts randomly in the middle of the episode and somehow that makes up for all the random times we've seen breasts on this show???? 

Edited May 24, 2016 by ThePrinceOfSunspear

[Vee]

They're not lying. Jesus Christ. These people are not supervillains designed specifically to piss you off.

 

And Sansa is having a great year. She was sarcastic and bitter with how she described what was done to her, it's not that she couldn't bring herself to say the words.

[Skin]

Saying that Sansa is having a great year is a bit much. Unifying her with Jon and Brienne has been an undeniable high point for the character, but a lot of that is plot mechanized. The pay off comes from story positioning more than anything else. She is much more likely to be able to drive plot now, as she is no longer a perpetual chess piece being utilized by everyone and their mother, but that's a pyrrhic victory at this point, because the character seems eternally lost.. 

 

Sansa still feels empty in relation to similar female leads on this show such as Dany, Cersei  and even Arya who have continually defined and re-defined themselves season after season. Watch her scenes in the last episode, compared to say Dany, for instance and she just ends up coming up so short. Same with Cersei, and it belabors the problem with Sansa's character. She's been stuck in a statis of perpetual victimhood for so long, that it is hard to see her as anything else, and we've lost a great amount of salient character construction for Sansa over the last consecutive seasons. Does anyone even remember who this woman was before Jeoffery used her as his personal play toy to torture day in and day out? I don't.

 

Her uniting with Jon is purely political, and lacks a great deal of sentimental attachment that would have been there had it been a reunification of Jon and Arya for instance, and that's another issue and of itself. Sansa isn't attached to anyone or anything, anymore, and she has lost touch with so much of what once made her who she was that it's hard to see her as being tangible to a lot of the things happening now. Jon could probably do a lot of the things he is doing now on his own, without Sansa. She's a help but the plot was going this way a long time ago, it doesn't help that Jon and Sansa barely had any relationship at all, and as such a lot of their interactions feels unearned. Even if they come from the same family.