You are right about the new musical theme, which was lovely. The construction of the Four Musketeers was also a success. But axing a huge number of the cast and dumbing down the plots was not the way to rejuvenate a soap that had had a short-term problem with writing. Once so many of the core characters were eliminated, the show was left with terrible writing and a bunch of newbies, many of whom never caught on. Soap fans will remain loyal to their shows even through periods of upheaval, if at least their beloved veteran characters are there. With a destruction of the show's core AND lame-o plots like Jonathan Brooks' Talking Computer, The Dreaming Death, The Ghost in the Attic, etc., the show was ASKING for longtime viewers to flee, LOL.

For the record, even Pamela Long later admitted in an interview that her "fantasy" plots were not necessarily the best way for TGL to go. She said that she had learned that between writing fantasy and writing realistic storylines, it was better to get real. Her second stint as the show's headwriter was much better.

I completely agree. By October of 1984, the longest running cast member on GL was Jerry verDorn, who debuted on GL in 1979. To be fair, GL had cast overhauls previously over its rich history (primarily during the radio years), but nothing like that. I was someone who liked Pam Long's writing in a lot of cases, just not the decision to overhaul so much of the cast in a relatively short time period.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by zanereed

I still get confused by how JvD was ranked over Denise Pence (even Denise said he was). In the episodes where Ross debuts, Katie was already established in Springfield.

I think 1983-1984 was a mixed bag. The best of it built on the history of characters - Phillip's adoption coming to light and the way that built up to the Four Musketeers adventure, and even the Lewis/Shayne Cat On A Hot Tin Roof that used the lives and history those characters had together.

The loss of many important characters was the worst of it, and I don't think the effects of that were felt for awhile. I think 1985 was when the WTF started to outweigh the good in many ways.

Yes, with the saga of the Four Musketeers, and with Bert's storyline, there were plusses to the 1983/4 season, certainly. But very soon, I'd say after Charita Bauer could no longer appear, the core of the show was lost, and the negative effect of having axed so many pivotal, beloved characters became apparent. Even Gail Kobe later confessed that the audience loathed the cast purge, particularly losing Mike and Hope Bauer, and commented that we should be surprised if the Bauers were written back into the story in the future. Alas, they never were.

I take your points, vetsoapfan.

Good God, the Dreaming Death and Infinity storylines were awful. And the one with the Springfield patriarchs messing with Annabelle was only bearable from time to time. I'm still scratching my head over Susan Piper and the ninja.

There were soooo many terrible stories being told at the time. Perhaps some of them might have been slightly easier to swallow, if we had had more beloved tentpole characters still around, but to be asked to endure asinine plots centered around actors who were new to the show...who cared?

I completely agree. By October of 1984, the longest running cast member on GL was Jerry verDorn, who debuted on GL in 1979. To be fair, GL had cast overhauls previously over its rich history (primarily during the radio years), but nothing like that. I was someone who liked Pam Long's writing in a lot of cases, just not the decision to overhaul so much of the cast in a relatively short time period.

Pamela Long could be a very capable writer, but she was still a novice during her initial stint at TGL, and she made many grave errors. Her second term on the show, and her primetime series Second Noah, were much better. If she had stuck to family drama, romance, and interpersonal relationships in 1983 and 84, she would be much more favorably remembered. The problems were not with her human drama, but with the lowbrow fantasy and "adventure" nonsense.

You are right about the new musical theme, which was lovely. The construction of the Four Musketeers was also a success. But axing a huge number of the cast and dumbing down the plots was not the way to rejuvenate a soap that had had a short-term problem with writing. Once so many of the core characters were eliminated, the show was left with terrible writing and a bunch of newbies, many of whom never caught on. Soap fans will remain loyal to their shows even through periods of upheaval, if at least their beloved veteran characters are there. With a destruction of the show's core AND lame-o plots like Jonathan Brooks' Talking Computer, The Dreaming Death, The Ghost in the Attic, etc., the show was ASKING for longtime viewers to flee, LOL.

Jonathan Brooks! Talk about something I've blocked from my memory. I have to be honest, anything Nola that happened after her attempt at trapping Kelly just didn't hold my attention. None of it. Remember Nolaerobics? Yeah, me neither.

+1 vote for the theme song. The sweeping, string-heavy theme that was used during that time has always been my favorite.

April 1969 TV Picture Life

I loved the Long/Kobe GL up until the fall of 85 when it all fell apart. All the families played off of each other, etc. Reva hadn't taken over and the camp was kind of kept to one storyline at a time...(Susan Piper was fun at first until it just didn't make any sense...) after Charita's death and the axing of the Mike and Hope, the recast of Ed, and this dissolution of the Reardons, it all camp apart..Kyle Sampson and Infinity, Reva jumping out of planes in her fur coat and big hair, Roxie Shayne's badly written and acted split personality, it ALL became camp ALL the time!

When Long returned she did bring the show back to earth so that was a plus. When Long wrote family and friendships she was on fire and really GOT what GL was. I wonderhow she would have written ATWT with its strong core after Marland died???

I still get confused by how JvD was ranked over Denise Pence (even Denise said he was). In the episodes where Ross debuts, Katie was already established in Springfield.

Good point, Carl. Now I am embarrassed. Denise was the longest running member at that time, having debuted in 1977. I, too, wondered why she didn't do the on-air dedication to Charita in 1985 (Jerry did it). She was still a cast member at that time, wasn't she?

Good point, Carl. Now I am embarrassed. Denise was the longest running member at that time, having debuted in 1977. I, too, wondered why she didn't do the on-air dedication to Charita in 1985 (Jerry did it). She was still a cast member at that time, wasn't she?

You don't have to be embarrassed, as even Denise herself corrected me on that front on Youtube a year or two ago. I guess if even she sees JvD as the longest-running cast member at that point, who am I to disagree?

For longtime devotees of TGL, the 1983/4 season was a nightmare, in the sense that Gail Kobe and Pamela Long were allowed (or encouraged) by TPTB to overhaul the show and hack away at its history and roots. We lost Bill Bauer, Bert Bauer, Hillary Bauer, Mike Bauer, and Hope Bauer, and were left only with a recently recast Ed and Rick, which crippled the show's identity. It was like doing THE WALTONS without John, Olivia, John-Boy, Mary-Ellen, Erin, and Ben, and only featuring a recast Elizabeth and Jason. We lost long-running characters like Sarah McIntyre, and popular ones like Amanda Spaulding and Nola Reardon. Not only was the cast decimated, but very soon the quality of the writing bottomed out, and we were forced to endure crappy, low-brow camp and a host of newer characters, many of whom never caught on with the audience. The show sucked from about 1984 to 1989, when Roger and Holly made a triumphant return and helped bring a renewed sense of continuity and history to Springfield.

The bizarre thing is, even against GH, which was very strong at the time, TGL was doing very well, and was a critical and popular success upon Kobe's and Long's arrival. Why they were allowed to hack away at such a fine, solid show remains a mystery to this day. The series never really recovered from their destructive decisions.

Looking at the ratings from 1983/84 to 1988/89 and there is a drop from year to year:

1983/84: 8.1 (#5)

1984/85: 7.5 (#4)

1985/86: 6.8 (#6)

1986/87: 6.3 (#7)

1987/88: 6.2 (#7)

1988/89: 6.2 (#7)

Were there ever any cancellation rumors in the mid-1980s?

Thanks for sharing the clipping about Marsha Clark pre-GL. I also enjoyed the blurb announcing Susan Trustman's marriage. She and Jerry Leider are still married to this day!!!

Looking at the ratings from 1983/84 to 1988/89 and there is a drop from year to year:

1983/84: 8.1 (#5)

1984/85: 7.5 (#4)

1985/86: 6.8 (#6)

1986/87: 6.3 (#7)

1987/88: 6.2 (#7)

1988/89: 6.2 (#7)

Were there ever any cancellation rumors in the mid-1980s?

I don't know if there were cancellation rumors, but it's interesting to speculate what would have happened next had GL, rather than Capitol, been axed during the '86-'87 season. Would we have ended up with a Y&R/B&B/ATWT/Cap lineup? And what would have gone at 3:30? Press Your Luck? Another soap?

I don't know if there were cancellation rumors, but it's interesting to speculate what would have happened next had GL, rather than Capitol, been axed during the '86-'87 season. Would we have ended up with a Y&R/B&B/ATWT/Cap lineup?

Interesting to think about, but John Conboy believed Capitol was axed partly due to Bill Bell holding a bit of a grudge against him. And after that, even at its best, B&B never outscored Capitol in the ratings.

Capitol was a hard show to get into. I watched intermittently and only ever cared about two storylines. But when Grant Aleksander was on they had him with his shirt off a lot, I guess they thought that was more important that story and characters.

I do remember hearing some speculation around 1988 about GL maybe being in danger considering its slow ratings slide. And it may have been just fan chatter.

Edited July 15, 201510 yr by duchess