May 4-8, 2009

[Ann_SS]

I concur with Steve Frame, these ratings are not good. Forget the overall ratings, the demos are trending downwards. ATWT is done. No way it gets another renewal. GH continues to be in serious trouble. It cannot make an increases in its 18-49 woman demo has declined substantially from last year. If GH cannot bounce back, it is done in a couple of years if that much. Y&R is barely treading water in its 18-49 women demo. And this is May sweeps. I want to blame kids out from college and families going on vacation, but I'm stretching. This is not good.

MarkH, I think B&B will be fine since its 18-49 women demo is more or less constant.

[CSF]

Y&R, AMC and Days are the only soaps up from last year. Good for them, but not for the rest of daytime.

Get it together ABC, CBS and NBC!!! There are still many stories to be told on every soap. I still believe the genre can thrive. It just needs a renaissance with fresh talented writer's who are willing to give it there all and tell stories that matter, stories that affect the every day viewer.

[DRW50]

I can't see the current Y&R material bringing ratings up. Many current stories are very dark and a bit aimless and full of characters who are difficult to sympathize with. I think they'll hold steady, which is great because many other shows aren't holding steady.

No matter how much lower GH gets in the ratings, it will probably still be renewed before AMC or OLTL. OLTL is probably in the best financial shape of any ABC soap, and is not any worse in the ratings than AMC or GH, but if Frons had to cancel a show, I think he'd go with OLTL first.

[CSF]

I don't think ABC renews them. I think as long as they make them money, they keep them going. I could be wrong, however. I always wonder how that worked since ABC owns them and we've never heard of any "contract negations." Like I wonder if there is an evaluation period when the execs above Frons say: "Okay as long as AMC, GH and OLTL preform in this manner and bring in x amount of revenue we won't open up discussion on their life expectancies again for x amount of years."

[JackPeyton]

Im sad days is down again, but ahppy its holding its spot and up from last year and still holding on in yearly HH and demos.

[Ann_SS]

I have always thought that GH would be the last ABC soap. I am not so sure any more. I think that if nothing happens to turn things around that the posters who have been saying that all the ABC shows will go at once will be right. According reports, GH is the most expensive to produce so I do not see a business model that allows Frons to keep it on the air if the demos do not stop sliding downwards.

[dinkydawes]

I watched Liason on Youtube for the Wednesday and Thursday show.

And Frons he needs to go. He is destroying ABC daytime.

[MarkH]

Yesterday's latest Geary interview confirmed that this show is in a land-lock of sympatico actors (MB, SB, TG) and their like-minded headwriter. These four, more or less, have been given the keys. They seem to think they are providing perfection....something edgy and ugly...not a "soap", but a realistic depiction of "soldiers"--warts and all. And they seem to think that is what the audience wants.

Moreover, I think there was a time when the freshness of each of these characters WAS part of their appeal.

Like all cancers, though, the problem is metastasis. Had they been unusual voices on a rich and diverse canvas...fine. Had they been buttressed by traditional soap characters and stories (Laura grounded Luke with that romance...she was a pretty typical soap heroine, and that made him palatable; Sonny was buoyed by his chemistry with Brenda; Jason Morgan was initially intriguing because it was a legitimately fascinating look at reinvention after traumatic brain injury), I don't think they'd create the backlash that they have. But they were allowed to overwhelm and consume the show, bringing to the current point.

The other thing, of course, is that the ratings held. GH was the strongest of the ABC soaps, had the biggest overall and demo ratings, and it also had the most "storied" history (in terms of that early-80s ratings miracle, popular love, and even awards).

Now, it all falls away. The tumor (Sonny-Jason-Luke) may have invaded too much of the flesh, leaving not enough foundation for others to enjoy. And so we see even the most resolute and loyal viewers falling away.

I turn it on many evenings, but I don't stick with it. I genuinely like a lot of the performances, but I get ZERO feeling or emotion out of the show. Moreover (much like Lost), I increasingly feel it is no point investing in any characters, because they might be dropped in an instant. (Bye,

!)

The flip side of "love in wartime" is, sadly, "battle fatigue". And that is what we're seeing now, I fear.

[Ann_SS]

MarkH, Guza and Phelps are writing more family/relationship drama and moving away from the mob. Unfortunately, the show still lacks balance and has a stale predictable feeling. If the family/relationship drama does not bring the ratings, I expect the mob will be back full force and if that does not work, it is over for GH because there will be nowhere left to go. I wish I could have a conversation with Brian Frons. I would try to persuade him to hire a co-headwriter/consultant. I always mention Sri Rao, but maybe someone like Kay Alden will do just as well. GH needs new blood with fresh eyes and before it is too late.

I do not believe that content or quality = ratings, but the precipitous declines of Y&R and GH have made me re-consider somewhat. Women in the prized 18-49 demo have tuned out in droves. Maybe they have other things to do, but maybe soaps' lack of quality is playing a role in driving them away. It is a mystery.

[MarkH]

I did notice that "more family" stuff on GH. I'm definitely colored by TG's recent despicable comments (and that is not a word I use often). Sri Rao's NS2 was sublime (IMO), but for whatever reason, it didn't bring in the numbers. Judging by Ms. Alden's work on B&B, I am less optimistic she might be able to remake GH...but what the heck. TG would hate her, though, if she humanized Luke again.

Why do you say "precipitous declines" for Y&R? That WAS true in Spring 2008. But actually, after Josh Griffith left, MAB's Y&R has actually been GAINING (slowly and steadily).

[Sylph]

Because it was awful.

[Ann_SS]

Y&R's ratings did drop under the scabs and MAB initially. I don't think I am making this up. I do wonder about the causes when the most popular soaps experience those sudden declines. When I look at Y&R 18-49 women demo, I see a lot of fluctuation. We'll see how it goes by November sweeps.

[SteveFrame]

I have tried to not get caught up in all the "hate" for Geary over at that thread.

I will just say here that it is hard for us to know what it is like working back stage at these soaps. And it has to be hard when you have played someone for so long that you feel like you know them inside and out and some writer or producer suddenly want to change them. I can't remember now which actor it was I was talking too once but he said that a writer wanted to change his character and he tried to do it but it was suddenly like someone took his briefs away and made him start wearing boxers. It just didn't feel right and didn't fit.

Geary is one of those actors that so many people hate that no matter what he says it is going to be made fun of no matter what. Same with Kim Zimmer and a few others.

Geary falls in that line with the likes of George Reinholt and Eric Braedan and Drake Hogestyn who have tried to fight for the integrity of their characters against a writer or producer that the "fans" love and adore. Sadly the actor comes out the loser in the end.

The sad thing is that if history teaches us anything, the stuff that Reinholt fought with Lemay over were things that eventually lead to Another World's demise as he ripped out the foundation of Another World by destroying it's core.

Honestly I wish more of the actors would speak up and try to fight things. If they did or had maybe some of the things that have happened to the shows wouldn't have happened.

Because one of the biggest problems with most of the shows in the last few years is they have gotten so far away from what they are supposed to be.

Look at Days and Y&R for the biggest examples. Sheffer and Latham turned those shows into shows that were nothing like the shows that fans were used to. Fans bolted.

As I have said before Sheffer/Scott turned Days into a technically beautiful show but it just was not Days - at least the Days that most modern fans know. And yet Hogestyn was the only one to speak out and say anything. And look what happened to him - fans tore him a new one, ripped him to shreads, and stomped all over him.

I have no doubt in my mind if Sheffer had stayed with Days there would be more than one show leaving the air this year - both Days and GL would have been cancelled. But thanks to Tomlin and Higley Days now has a chance of staying around not just another year but even longer because even more than Y&R it is the success story of 2009. Who would have ever dreamed that DAys would have a chance of knocking GH out of the #3 spot for this season. I sure as hell didn't.

[Ann_SS]

My issue with Geary is that the Luke that he is playing now never existed until Guza arrived and got a free hand. Luke never cheated on Laura or resented his children. We never saw that on the screen so what is Geary talking about? Guza is allowing him to change Luke and he is happy about it which is the reverse of what the actor you mentioned experienced. I do note hate Geary, but his determination to re-create Luke with Guza gets on my damn nerves.

You are a Days and ATWT fan. What if Stephen Nichols was still on the show as Patch and Katyla was gone and day after day, you were constantly being told that Kayla held back Patch from his wonderful life, he resented having a child with her, he cheated on her constantly, he was disappointed in Stephanie, and he found a substitute child? I cannot believe that this would not rub you the wrong way. This is what is happening on GH. This is where a lot of the outrage is coming from.

No soap is ever doing the right thing when it spits in the face of its history and this is exactly what GH is doing with Geary's blessing.

[SteveFrame]

I am a GH fan too. I watched LUke and Laura from the beginning. I can remember when Luke tried to change and tried to be upright citizen running for and getting mayor. I remember how he complained that wasn't him. I remember him chunking it all and taking off with Laura. He didn't want to be that type person even back then. He wanted to be off and running.

As far as the cheating, Laura is the first one who had the history changed when it was revealed she had slept with Cassadine when she was being held and gave birth to Nikolas.

So this is not the first time that great love of Luke and Laura has been betrayed.

Hell from day one the love of Luke and Laura has been written and rewritten. First it was rape and for almost a month Francis played it as a rape victim and then it wasn't rape it was seduction. And even Genie Francis stated in the press that she felt it negated her whole performances when they rewrote it. Then years later they reversed it again and it was rape again.

I mean come on it is not like the whole love story is not full of rewrites.

and as far as Patch & Kayla go. I would have bought a whole lot more that Patch & Kayla moved on in all those years a whole lot more than the crap they tried to make us buy that their love was so strong that neither one of them ever looked at anyone else. Gag me with a pitch fork.