In honor of AW's 45th anniversary,I thought I'd start this thread and perhaps all future posts concerning this show could be in one place.at present there are several threads.

Here's a description from Irna Phillips at the time of debut.

"What I want to say is that none of us can face reality 24 hours a day. We must have private 'worlds', made up of our down dreams and pleasures and emotions, into which to retreat. Otherwise, it would be simply too much!"

The story follows the lives of the families of two brothers, William and James Matthews, in a suburban university town. It opens with the death of William, then shows how the sad events affects the widow and their children and the other brother and his family. Grandma Matthews gets into the action, to. The writer promises to relate to contemporary problems; two of them she mentioned are school dropouts and illegitimacy.

I was nostalgically watching an old Onion video or two from when they actually had money to make videos (thanks, Facebook...) and came upon one I hadn't seen before. Soon my response was,  holy [!@#$%^&*], isn't that Alice Barrett as the mother??? Maybe  I'm  wrong. You can decide.

 

37 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Did anyone ever hold Rachel accountable for her past indiscretions after her transformation post-Mac? Was there actually anyone cheering Iris on? lol

I think Willis, Janice, and then that unfortunate anniversary return for Gwen are the only times. 

@DRW50 That's her Carl.

10 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

@DRW50 That's her Carl.

Thanks. 

 

5 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

When Jacqueline Courtney returned as Alice in the 1980s, didn’t they have a story where Alice was now Rachel’s doctor? RIDICULOUS. The writers clearly didn’t care about history. Given what those two characters went through, there is no way that would happen. Rachel extends a Christmas invitation to Alice in another scene from the 80s. Also crazy. They should have been stiffly cordial at best, which is how they played it during the 25 anniversary episodes.

Gary Tomlin, who was writing AW when Alice returned in 1984 acknowledged in an interview that he had not studied the Alice/Rachel history. It showed.

2 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Did anyone ever hold Rachel accountable for her past indiscretions after her transformation post-Mac? Was there actually anyone cheering Iris on? lol

Long-time fans, LOL!

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Lemay seemed to want to reset some of this when he returned to the show, as there was a scorching scene of Rachel berating Liz and casting her out  (with Liz sobbing in Mac's arms, I believe) after Liz's hatred for the Frames led her to  accidentally tell Matthew about his conception. 

Yes, but Rachel's egregious transgressions should never have been swept under the rug in the first place. In real life, nobody in the Matthews family would have forgiven her for what she did to Russ and Alice. And Audra Lindley's version of Aunt Liz would have pulverized her.

7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 Yes, but Rachel's egregious transgressions should never have been swept under the rug in the first place. In real life, nobody in the Matthews family would have forgiven her for what she did to Russ and Alice. And Audra Lindley's version of Aunt Liz would have pulverized her.

I  agree. Irene never seemed to get to be that Liz. The closest I  can see is a few of the moments where she tore into Sharlene when she found out Josie was Russ' daughter. 

26 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I  agree. Irene never seemed to get to be that Liz. The closest I  can see is a few of the moments where she tore into Sharlene when she found out Josie was Russ' daughter. 

There's that oft-discussed episode in which Rachel marches over to Alice's house, berates her, and snaps, "Where's the child YOU'VE ever given him (Steve)?"

Aunt Liz just sat there meekly. The most she did throughout the entire abusive encounter was murmer, "Rachel, you had better go."

She should have showed some real rage, and at least tried to drag Rachel out of there physically.

 

Edited October 11, 20214 yr by vetsoapfan

Why was it Aunt Liz there instead of Mary?

I do recall Ada would try to explain to Rachel that she needed to move on.  And she was always sweet and warm to Alice.  Which is why in 1985, it seemed odd that Ada was blaming Alice for upsetting Rachel by telling her she stole Steve from her.

The 1989 visit by Alice seemed much better and more in keeping with history.  They had warm things to say, but there was an underlying tension between the two 

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Why was it Aunt Liz there instead of Mary?

On the show, I think, though I’m not sure,  that Liz had been living with Alice around that time.

Behind the scenes, that was when Lemay had really begun to diminish Mary’s purpose on the show and give all the scenes like that to Liz or Ada.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

There's that oft-discussed episode in which Rachel marches over to Alice's house, berates her, and snaps, "Where's the child YOU'VE ever given him (Steve)?"

Aunt Liz just sat there meekly. The most she did throughout the entire abusive encounter was murmer, "Rachel, you had better go."

She should have showed some real rage, and at least tried to drag Rachel out of there physically.

From the audio clips I've heard, Audra Lindley's Liz would have mopped the floor with Rachel.

18 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

From the audio clips I've heard, Audra Lindley's Liz would have mopped the floor with Rachel.

Audra Lindley's Liz would have made Rachel wish she was lying dead on the floor beside Danny Fargo--or would have put her there!

Just now, Nicholas Blair said:

Audra Lindley's Liz would have made Rachel wish she was lying dead on the floor beside Danny Fargo--or would have put her there!

Probably the latter. 😂

I don’t remember a lot about Mary Mathews. But it doesn’t seem like she was a real strong dominant matriarch like a Nancy Hugh’s or Alice Horton

8 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

I don’t remember a lot about Mary Mathews. But it doesn’t seem like she was a real strong dominant matriarch like a Nancy Hugh’s or Alice Horton

No, and from synopses it seems that right from the start she was overshadowed by a much flashier character, the other Mrs. Matthews - Liz.

1 hour ago, TVFAN1144 said:

I don’t remember a lot about Mary Mathews. But it doesn’t seem like she was a real strong dominant matriarch like a Nancy Hugh’s or Alice Horton

Actually, Mary was a strong  archetypal  soap matriarch in the mold of Nancy Hughes and Alice Horton -- from the beginning of the show, and up through the Cenedela years.  The reason Mary is less remembered is Harding Lemay did not appreciate the matriarchal role on AW and began to diminish the character almost immediately upon his arrival at AW.  First Lemay attempted to change Mary's motherly supportive nature into that of a meddling busy-body.  When that didn't work, he brought back Aunt Liz and gave her all the traits he wanted his version of Mary to have, and then Mary's screen-time became minimal.  She was often explained as out of town, or sneaking away to care for Missy and Ricky (without Liz knowing).  As someone mentioned in an earlier post, many of Mary's scenes were, at the last minute, given to Ada or Liz, or occasionally even Helen Moore. It became ridiculous, especially for fans of the character, like myself.   Lemay did not like writing for happy families, and despite all their personal problems, the Matthews family had always been fundamentally happy and loving (similar to ATWT's Hughes, DOOL's Hortons, and AMC's Martins).  Lemay preferred writing the family as fundamentally flawed by making their mother (Mary) a thorn in everyone's side.  Unsuccessful at that, he minimized then killed-off Mary, which threw-off the balance of the show for the final 25 years of its run.   

It really seems like he projected his contempt for certain actors onto their characters.