8 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

What was so grand about the free market before the ACA?  For starters, I HAD insurance.  Because of my pre-existing conditions, it probably wasn't the best -- as a matter of fact, the "crappy" coverage plans that ReddFoxx describes upthread comes pretty close to describing what I had -- but at least I had it, which I can't say now (or ever again, thanks to Repealgate).

 

Before the ACA, my monthly premiums never rose above $200/mo.  Also, I never had to re-apply every year for coverage.  In fact, between the age of 25 and the first year of Obamacare, I had only one coverage plan.  I can't recall offhand how many years I've had to apply through the marketplace, but I do know that I've never been able to keep either my previous plan (despite Obama's claims when they passed the ACA that I could -- my insurance company had to cancel my plan because the coverage wasn't adequate by the ACA's criteria, even though it satisfied my personal needs) or any plans acquired via the marketplace for more than one year.

 

I'm not saying my experience mirrors the average American's.  Nor do I disagree with your argument, Jane, or with anyone else's here.  I agree 1000% with everything you all say and have said once I factor myself out of it.  Moreover, I consider myself blessed next to the millions who, before ACA, were up the metaphorical creek and now will be again.  I'm just saying that I cannot be the only one in this country who has yet to benefit from anyone on either side fooling around with something that should have been left alone.

 

IMO, instead of trying to get everyone health insurance, the government -- and that includes the Republicans as well as the Democrats; AFAIC, neither party is off the hook in this situation -- but the government should focus (and should have focused) instead on more aggressive reforms for the entire health care industry -- physicians, hospitals and clinics, insurance companies, pharmaceutical corporations, you name it.  At the risk of sounding like one of the Evanses on "Good Times," something is wrong with the system when one aspirin at the hospital costs more than the same capsule purchased at a drugstore; and because costs are high and continue to get higher, people who cannot afford these services to begin with have to default on bills and such -- which translates, of course, into higher premiums for those who can still afford them (until they can't anymore, which results in their dropping out, and the vicious cycle continues).

 

Everyone in Washington -- and yes, I do mean everyone, from the president on down -- should have concentrated on reforming the health care industry FIRST, ridding us of these exorbitant costs that necessitate higher insurance premiums, before doing anything else, because -- again, IMO -- once that was under control, then they could have tackled the issue of getting everyone in the country more affordable health care.  However, as things are now, this (higher costs leading to higher premiums) is an issue that's just gonna keep recurring no matter which panacea that either party offers.

I agree with all this and AMEN the industry needs massive reform but there is not one person in our political system either party with the guts to lead that effort. ANd there is a huge lobby in Washington. One reason Medicare actually works is that providers who accept it agree to the limits and such that are put in place also. Personally I believe healthcare is a right to every citizen and while I think the government needs to provide it, in this climate probably not.

 

On the flip side I will ask you that old policy you had, did you use it, did it actually cover any healthcare costs you experienced? Would you have been covered in the event you suffered a catastrophic illness? If the answer is no, then doesn't that kind of answer how valuable that 200 dollars a month being spent on the policy was?

10 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

Calling members of Congress really does help. The more opposition, the better. They will back off if enough people make a fuss, because they are all about keeping their seats. No one wants to lose a huge salary plus benefits, which is what members of Congress get and plenty of them need it badly.

And for ACA advocates, call your congressperson but also call 3 GOPers - Rand Paul, Lemar Alexander, Bob Corker are the top 3 add in Susan Collins, Cotton, Collins, and Murkowski.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

From who?  Mr. I Love This Bar?

 

You know, it figures that TK would agree to perform (and be so unapologetic about it).  I've always had my suspicions about him.

 

Then again, I've always had my suspicions about white people from Oklahoma.

 

What's weird is that for a long time, he was actually a registered Democrat. In fact, in 2004, while he endorsed Bush for President, he also endorsed then-Congressman Dan Boren in Oklahoma's 2nd Congressional District. Now to be honest, neither of those things are THAT unusual--Until about a decade ago, there were still more registered Democrats in Oklahoma than registered Republicans, despite the state's long time status as a Republican stronghold on a presidential level (and increasingly on a statewide and local level), and the 2nd Congressional District--the Eastern half of Oklahoma (not including Tulsa), also known as "Little Dixie"--has long been considered the most Democratic area of the state, so I can see how many people there would vote for a Republican president, while also voting for Democrats in the down ballot races (although, again, this has since changed). I mean, the state DID elect Democrat Brad Henry as Governor twice, as recently as 10-15 years ago.

 

That said, Dan Boren was probably the most conservative Democratic member of Congress when he served there (his father--former Senator David Boren--is the far superior public servant in the family), and when he decided not to run again in 2012, the seat predictably became Republican. 
 

And Toby Keith himself, I believe, is now an Independent, although some Republicans are known for claiming to be Independents publicly, so...make of that what you will.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry, I got a bit off the rails here, but I will say, despite the fact that not one Oklahoma county has voted for a Democratic candidate for president (in a general election, that is) since 2000 (where Al Gore won eight counties), I have always tried to have some hope for your home state, Khan. I have heard things in the past about how Oklahoma City/Oklahoma County may VERY slowly, but surely, be drifting towards the Democrats, though that may be going slower to some extent than Texas' supposed drift to the blue column. And on a personal level, when I was a kid, there were several times when I was visiting my grandparents in Arkansas--who lived near the Oklahoma border--where we would cross the state line into Oklahoma. I know it has its flaws, but as a Democrat who has been active in local politics, I want to see more areas of the country become competitive, so I'm trying to stay positive and encourage people to become involved, especially now. It's about all I can do.

 

And on a side note: even though Mary Fallin may be awful, I remember in 2010, seeing her and Jari Askins running for Governor, and thinking, as a young woman,  how cool it was that, no matter which one of them was elected, Oklahoma would have their female Governor. I'm sentimental like that, I guess.  

Obama is commuting Chelsea Manning's remaining sentence. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/obama-commutes-chelsea-mannings-sentence-233722

Edited January 17, 20178 yr by DRW50

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Obama is commuting Chelsea Manning's remaining sentence. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/obama-commutes-chelsea-mannings-sentence-233722

I really don't know much about what she actually leaked, so I can't say what I think of this.  I feel the same about Snowden. When the chips are down I don't really know if I think what he did was wrong because I haven't looked into it deeply enough.

14 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Obama is commuting Chelsea Manning's remaining sentence. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/obama-commutes-chelsea-mannings-sentence-233722

 

Did you all see the tweet that Julian Assange said he'd turn himself in if this occurred? 

 

He's so full of sh*t.

5 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

Did you all see the tweet that Julian Assange said he'd turn himself in if this occurred? 

 

He's so full of sh*t.

 

That douche always wants to make a story about him. He needs to sod off.

 

This won't get anywhere but one of Trump's sexual assault accusers is suing for defamation.

 

Sex assault accuser Summer Zervos sues ‘liar and misogynist’ Donald Trump for defamation

 

I've never heard of PEOTUS who is days away from taking the oath of office with being involoved in so many lawsuits. And still hasn't shown his taxes!

How utterly disgraceful.

 

 

25 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Obama is commuting Chelsea Manning's remaining sentence. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/obama-commutes-chelsea-mannings-sentence-233722

 

The right wingers are losing their collective [!@#$%^&*]. It's fun to see. At least it would be if it wasn't an ocean of transphobia. It's amazing how much energy these folks put into hate.

2 hours ago, GMac said:

True story.  As it is now, I've opted for the cheapest coverage HSA "bronze" because I simply can't afford the Silver and Gold options.  High deductibles.  The next step after this will be the "safety net" plan - it's as bad as it sounds.

 

At this point, if I become seriously ill -- and God willing, that will not happen -- but if I become seriously ill, I will basically have to cheat the system.  That means defaulting on bills and filing for bankruptcy.  (Until the courts decide you can't do that anymore.  Which is fine, because I'm unemployed and living at home.  So, it isn't as if they could SEIZE any of my assets as payment -- because, hey, I haven't any assets!  But, either way, the bills will go unpaid.)

 

So, I just want to say right now, thank you very much for "allowing" me to pass MY costs onto you...and hey, let's make America great again!!

Edited January 17, 20178 yr by Khan

1 minute ago, Khan said:

 

At this point, if I become seriously ill -- and God willing, that will not happen -- but if I become seriously ill, I will basically have to cheat the system.  That means defaulting on bills and filing for bankruptcy.  (Until the courts decide you can't do that anymore.  Which is fine, because I'm unemployed and living at home.  So, it isn't as if they could SEIZE any of my assets as payment -- because, hey, I haven't any assets!  But, either way, the bills will go unpaid.)

 

So, I just want to say right now, thank you very much for "allowing" me to pass MY costs onto you...and hey, let's make America again!!

That's not cheating the system. How many times has the orange menace declared bankruptcy?

4 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

That's not cheating the system. How many times has the orange menace declared bankruptcy?

And called it "good business".

7 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

That's not cheating the system.

 

It is to me.  I get sick, I get medical attention, I say I can't pay the bill, and after exhausting every available option, the hospital (or whoever) has to eat the costs.  If that's not cheating the system, then what is it (besides being a schmuck)?

Edited January 17, 20178 yr by Khan

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

It is to me.  I get sick, I get medical attention, I say I can't pay the bill, and after exhausting every available option, the hospital (or whoever) has to eat the costs.  If that's not cheating the system, then what is it (besides being a schmuck)?

Working the system and doing what you have to do to survive.  There are going to be a lot of people who have no choice but to do the same, including cancer and transplant patients.

Thousands of people were doing that pre-ACA. The hospital lobby does not want to see ACA repealed precisely because of that. ACA is not going to be repealed at the end of the day, because the costs are unbelievably high and would cause the insurance market as a whole to collapse.

45 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

Thousands of people were doing that pre-ACA. The hospital lobby does not want to see ACA repealed precisely because of that. ACA is not going to be repealed at the end of the day, because the costs are unbelievably high and would cause the insurance market as a whole to collapse.

 

I wish you were right but their hatred of the ACA is rooted in ideology and a lack of rationality. In a sensible country with a Republican Party that wasn't basically an occupying force they would realize that fixing the law would be better for them because that's what their constituents want but they just don't care. It wouldn't just be the right thing to do but it would be the practical thing and yet they refuse to do it because Obama's election drove them [!@#$%^&*] insane and their hatred of him overrides everything. They will gleefully kill their own voters if it means they can stick it to him. Think of Obama as Batman and the GOP is made up of a million different versions of The Joker. The Joker doesn't want to take over the world. He just wants to hurt Batman.

16 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

I wish you were right but their hatred of the ACA is rooted in ideology and a lack of rationality. In a sensible country with a Republican Party that wasn't basically an occupying force they would realize that fixing the law would be better for them because that's what their constituents want but they just don't care. It wouldn't just be the right thing to do but it would be the practical thing and yet they refuse to do it because Obama's election drove them [!@#$%^&*] insane and their hatred of him overrides everything. They will gleefully kill their own voters if it means they can stick it to him. Think of Obama as Batman and the GOP is made up of a million different versions of The Joker. The Joker doesn't want to take over the world. He just wants to hurt Batman.

I saw 2 different news reports today, one with NBC and one with Wall Street Journal...where 45% of people polled now said they didn't want ACA to be replaced or overturned and thought it was good.  41% said it wasn't.  But this is the highest approval and the first time more people approve than the "disapprovers".   Which tells me.......AHHHHHH.  HMMMMMMM.  Alotta the people that were pulling for the orange menace have started to do their homework now and are realizing..."OH SHI*! WAIT A MINUTE!  What will WE HAVE IF WE DON'T HAVE ACA!??"     The AH- HA! moment.  More than 50% polled said they had little or no confidence that the new administration would put anything forth that was better.  Again..."AH-HA!"  The lightbulbs are coming on but it's a little too late.  Which goes to what you're saying - I have a coworker who has said it the whole election....why in the Hell is the Republican party trying to kill off its own members?  So many of these elderly people on programs that the GOP hates and wants to get rid of...are the very programs they need.  Why don't they see it?  Because the Republican party just wanted to "win"...they don't care that their policies will kill their own constituents off.