9 minutes ago, Khan said:

If we are to believe the polls - and that's a big "if" from me! - then I would agree that a change needed to be made.  Polls or no polls, however, I just don't like the way Democratic leaders have forced this transition.  There were better ways to convince Joe Biden to step aside than yelling, "Go to bed, old man!"

But, what else should we have expected from a country that never values its' senior citizens?

I didn't like it at all.  There was too much "persecution", both from within the party and from the media.  Even Sunday morning, I was still of the opinion Uncle Joe should stick it out and remain in the race.  But I accepted that perhaps I was being selfish and putting my wishes and Joe Biden's (kind-hearted) reputation of statesmanship above the need to win an important election that I honestly believe is winnable with a candidate who can carry the swing states.  

19 hours ago, Khan said:

I cannot believe that this is happening.

I cannot believe that we have become so heartless toward the elderly that we have forced an otherwise healthy, sane and competent man (who just happens to be of a certain age) to give up running for re-election, simply because he had one bad night on TV.

I know we Americans have short memories, but dear! God!

Compare where we are now to where we were when Biden took office - at 79 years old! - and then say again why you think keeping a(n allegedly) declining Biden in the WH would be just as bad or worse for us than another four years of Donald. [!@#$%^&*]. Trump, who is also declining, but who is also a convicted felon and known rapist, too.

I know that (polls be damned) Biden would have handed him his ass again, for a number of reasons. Just as I know that if we mess up AGAIN and allow Trump to become president AGAIN, we can kiss goodbye whatever remains of our already fragile democracy.

But, I don't know. Maybe that is what we deserve.

Maybe, in the end, we deserve to have our remaining liberties robbed from us, if only to remind ourselves - or, at least, those of us who still think the past eight or so years have been just business as usual - that there is a reason why we have fought all the wars we have fought, and marched in all the streets we have marched in, and sacrificed everything we have sacrificed; and that it was because we never wanted our country to see a day like today.

That's how I feel too. If we're so willing and prepared to throw away our freedoms and rights that easily, then maybe we do deserve to live in a fascist dictatorship. Maybe seeing millions of people suffering and dying under the hands of a Cristofascist regime might be the thing that finally opens people's eyes and gets them to see exactly what we have lost. But by then it will be way too late. Then again, maybe Trump's victory is inevitable and it's only a matter of time before our democracy finally crumbles and millions of people are completely wiped out. At least by that point I won't have to worry about continuing to live on this hellish earth anymore. It's going to take a miracle for Kamala Harris to win and I'm not even sure if that's in the cards. 

....Anyway, someone got with the program:

 

16 minutes ago, Broderick said:

But I accepted that perhaps I was being selfish and putting my wishes and Joe Biden's (kind-hearted) reputation of statesmanship above the need to win an important election that I honestly believe is winnable with a candidate who can carry the swing states.  

But who is to say that this election is winnable for ANY Democrat, let alone one with a reputation and record as stellar as Joe Biden's? 

The fact is, due to the GOP's ability to control the media, this election was never going to be easy for the Democrats.  But Biden, IMO, stood the best chance of beating Donald Trump in November, because his record - as president, and as VP - spoke for itself.

More and more, it just seems to me that we are where we are because of rich donors from within the Democratic Party who had hoped to swap out Biden AND Harris for an all-white, all-male ticket.  But, as I've been saying, that's a conversation for another day.

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

....Anyway, someone got with the program:

 

She needed to, if she had any hope at all of salvaging her rep after her full court press on Joe Biden.  I mean, it's one thing to say Grampa Joe's too old and feeble to be president anymore, but then to refrain from endorsing his black, female running mate?  That might make her look racist, sexist AND ageist.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by Khan

5 minutes ago, MissPhoenixGirl92 said:

If we're so willing and prepared to throw away our freedoms and rights that easily, then maybe we do deserve to live in a fascist dictatorship. Maybe seeing millions of people suffering and dying under the hands of a Cristofascist regime might be the thing that finally opens people's eyes and gets them to see exactly what we have lost. But by then it will be way too late.

I don't know your personal situation, so I don't know if this would affect you or anyone you know. But the way you said "seeing millions" implies that seeing it on the news and not experiencing directly.  If it won't impact you directly, maybe you have the luxury of making such a statement.
But it will cause true suffering for millions who didn't choose this, and nobody deserves this.  Being all pissy about this might be a stand you can afford, but it feels arrogant to me.

Joe Biden's main thing is compassion.   Statements about how everyone should suffer now, is the opposite of that.

To be perfectly honest I think that the Democrats made a mistake when they didn't start looking for someone new right after Biden won in 2020. It's nothing personal against Biden, but there's no getting around the fact that he is 81 years old!

There's a lower age limit to become president, and maybe there should be an upper age limit as well. If a 32-year old is considered unsuitable, then maybe a 75-year old should be too.

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

But who is to say that this election is winnable for ANY Democrat, let alone one with a reputation and record as stellar as Joe Biden's? 

This election is very winnable. At least based on the candidate and his condition I saw onstage.

I hate how this switch was done, even if the polling was truly bad enough internally. But it's done, Kamala is ready IMO and there's too much at stake to walk away.

I'm not even going to comment on the weird posts from the lady who spends most of her days writing fanfiction about how the characters she hates on soaps will have every aspect of their life destroyed ASAP. I don't need that mentality brought into the Politics Thread.

17 minutes ago, Vee said:

I'm not even going to comment on the <snip> I don't need that mentality brought into the Politics Thread.

Oh I know. My response to that wasn't really specifically for that poster.  I am well aware of their opinion of their extreme opinion of what should happen regarding a fictional soap character.

My post was more me venting my general frustration with that type of comment expressed anywhere with people I encounter in real life about politics, and that type of comment expressed anywhere in the media.  Sadly people are saying that crap, that everyone deserves to suffer, because Joe isn't the nominee.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by janea4old

32 minutes ago, MissPhoenixGirl92 said:

That's how I feel too. If we're so willing and prepared to throw away our freedoms and rights that easily, then maybe we do deserve to live in a fascist dictatorship. Maybe seeing millions of people suffering and dying under the hands of a Cristofascist regime might be the thing that finally opens people's eyes and gets them to see exactly what we have lost. But by then it will be way too late. Then again, maybe Trump's victory is inevitable and it's only a matter of time before our democracy finally crumbles and millions of people are completely wiped out. At least by that point I won't have to worry about continuing to live on this hellish earth anymore. It's going to take a miracle for Kamala Harris to win and I'm not even sure if that's in the cards. 

This doesn't represent the reality of the future election. Saying that you "won't have to worry about continuing living on this earth" is troubling and scary. I don't know what this means, but it sounds disturbing. 

26 minutes ago, Vee said:

This election is very winnable. At least based on the candidate and his condition I saw onstage.

I hate how this switch was done, even if the polling was truly bad enough internally. But it's done, Kamala is ready IMO and there's too much at stake to walk away.

Yes. She's ready!

Kamala Harris campaign tweet from 2019 (When she was running before Biden was nominated in 2020)

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by janea4old

38 minutes ago, Khan said:

But who is to say that this election is winnable for ANY Democrat, let alone one with a reputation and record as stellar as Joe Biden's? 

 

@Khan, that's my primary concern --- for the party to drop President Biden because he's supposedly trailing insurmountably in the Rust Belt, Georgia, Etal, and then end up losing those states by the *same* margin with a different candidate.  That sends a horrible message to the electorate (especially to seniors). 

Perhaps this election simply is *unwinnable* for Dems, due to inflation (and the American belief that we're the only nation in the world suffering from inflation!)  Has the GOP articulated their solution to global inflation?  If so, I ain't heard it!    

But I do believe a fresh start for this campaign, with fresher faces, fresher energy, and fresher cash flowing into the coffers can only help at this point.  That doesn't make me feel any better about Biden's treatment, but it does make me feel more positive about the chances of a win.    

Thanks @dragonflies😂😂😂

And if I may also add another point, not contributing recurring payments is not the same as not voting. Let’s keep that in mind, things are still fresh, wounds are still fresh. Although I have expressed this elsewhere, I don’t know if I had a chance to express my gratitude to President Biden for how much he has accomplished and tried to accomplish against the mighty forces of opposition and intractability from the other side.

As I said upthread, I believe there will come a time when those people who forced this to happen in this manner, need to be called to account but I hope the focus will be on the the next 3.5 months and getting the result democracy needs. If you told me we would be here, even early Sunday morning, I honestly wouldn’t have believed you.

I am worried for Kamala and the amount of sheer hatred that's about to be hurled her way. They hated Obama but they attacked Michelle even worse. They just can't stand seeing a black woman in charge. I'm 110% with her, and suddenly my 2019 Kamala bumper sticker on my car is relevant again

Rest easy, everyone: Joe Manchin is not running for president, lol:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-manchin-not-running-for-president-joe-biden-kamala-harris/