I expected that Harris' attack wouldn't leave much of a mark. That said, people who keep trying to make this about Obama are looking for excuses why reality isn't playing out to confirm their narrative.

 

 

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by marceline

3 hours ago, marceline said:

I keep seeing people talk about how much they want to see X person debate Trump. It's not going to matter. Trump is senile and stupid. Anybody who debates him will "win" but it won't matter. Hillary shredded him during the debates and it didn't matter.

 

The same for people saying that Kamala took Biden apart last night. It won't matter. Biden's support isn't "technical" it's emotional. It's about a traumatized electorate desperate for sanity and stability. Not a single person running seems to grasp that other than Biden. Everybody else is promising big changes which only reads as upheaval. Biden's messaging is clumsy right now but he's slowly zeroing in on the thing I think people want to hear. If he finally hits the point of "I'm here to end this chaos," he will be untouchable. IMO, all these people trying to knock Biden out of the top spot are failing because they are misreading the electorate. Going after Biden on busing means nothing to me and I'm someone who was actually bused as a child. 

 

I think a lot of candidates are focusing on the media more than the public because they still believe the media carries the day. The media does play an outsized role, but any Democrat who tries too hard to curry their favor will pay a price, because the media is always going to support a Republican and a right wing ideal. Obama froze out the media more often the not, and was right to do so. 

 

I think that a lot of people are nervous with Biden because he seems so shaky. Then there are others who have just never liked him, or feel he is never going to share their values, or use him as a proxy for Obama and their issues with Obama. If Biden were stronger then it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but between the apathy toward him from some voters who seem to be on the verge of sitting out another election, and his own frailty, I'm nervous about his chances in a general election. 

 

I don't really know if anyone else will be any better though. I would say Warren but I think she's going to be easily made into a hate figure and my guess is Bernie bros will stay at home. 

 

Kamala is difficult to gauge because she's very skilled and should do well on paper, but there is always such pushback - and very often from black voters I see online, who seem to intensely dislike her for various reasons. 

3 hours ago, marceline said:

I keep seeing people talk about how much they want to see X person debate Trump. It's not going to matter. Trump is senile and stupid. Anybody who debates him will "win" but it won't matter. Hillary shredded him during the debates and it didn't matter.

 

The same for people saying that Kamala took Biden apart last night. It won't matter. Biden's support isn't "technical" it's emotional. It's about a traumatized electorate desperate for sanity and stability. Not a single person running seems to grasp that other than Biden. Everybody else is promising big changes which only reads as upheaval. Biden's messaging is clumsy right now but he's slowly zeroing in on the thing I think people want to hear. If he finally hits the point of "I'm here to end this chaos," he will be untouchable. IMO, all these people trying to knock Biden out of the top spot are failing because they are misreading the electorate. Going after Biden on busing means nothing to me and I'm someone who was actually bused as a child. 

+1,000,000,000

I know it is too early, but Biden seems to represent our last "golden time" - when our government cared for all its citizens, rather than the "base" and the corporations. I will vote for whichever person gets the nomination, save for Bernie (I just can't with him! But I won't vote for Trump EVER...).

 

Frankly, though, I think Biden will hold on. People, for good or bad, seem to respond to him as a person. And, as we should have learned in 2016, while it should be, electability seems less about issues and is more about "cult of personality". And people like Uncle Joe. Shrug.

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

You think a race between Biden and Trump will be civil?  I think you'll be in for a surprise on that one.

 

I'm not necessarily talking about the run-up to the election.  Presidential races are hardly ever civil, lol.  But, if Biden were to defeat Trump, I do believe some measure of civility would return to the actual presiding over our nation.

4 hours ago, marceline said:

I keep seeing people talk about how much they want to see X person debate Trump. It's not going to matter. Trump is senile and stupid. Anybody who debates him will "win" but it won't matter. Hillary shredded him during the debates and it didn't matter.

 

The same for people saying that Kamala took Biden apart last night. It won't matter. Biden's support isn't "technical" it's emotional. It's about a traumatized electorate desperate for sanity and stability. Not a single person running seems to grasp that other than Biden. Everybody else is promising big changes which only reads as upheaval. Biden's messaging is clumsy right now but he's slowly zeroing in on the thing I think people want to hear. If he finally hits the point of "I'm here to end this chaos," he will be untouchable. IMO, all these people trying to knock Biden out of the top spot are failing because they are misreading the electorate. Going after Biden on busing means nothing to me and I'm someone who was actually bused as a child. 

 

For some strange reason, I was expecting this.  There was just something about Bridget Kelly's tone after that initial trial that said this matter was far from over.

 

The Supreme Court has agreed to hear a case brought by a former aide to ex-New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie who is appealing her conviction in the Bridgegate scandal https://t.co/jTdjAM8qcg

— CNN (@CNN) June 28, 2019

 

11 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

I think Biden's age was a small factor last night but IMO the biggest issue was he didn't prepare. He IMO is doing the same thing people accused Hillary of doing, running a general election campaign and taking the primary for granted.(although Hillary was never unprepared) I hope he learned his lesson. I do believe he'll actually be prepared next time around. And he handled Palin well in the 2008 debate and partially salvaged the 2012 debates after Obama's disastrous 1st performance against Romney and cleaned Paul Ryan's clock, so he can debate.hb

 

The message to me is that people like Harris, Warren, Buttigieg, heck even Michael Bennett who got some hits in on Biden aren't there for cabinet positions or to be VP.

 

I had read somewhere that he did prepare, but he didn't follow what they had given him. I wish I could find the article, but I read somewhere last night that his staff was shocked at his performance and disappointed he didn't follow their advice. Even today, he met with a civil rights group and there's a video of him going around saying just because you see a young black man in a hoodie, it doesn't automatically mean he's a thug or criminal, he may be a poet as well. Ummm...can he possibly be someone who is cold? Someone wearing the hoodie because it's an ultra common thing to wear? Why do you jump to it somehow being criminal? He can't keep having moments like this back-to-back and stay at the top of the pack. His team is gonna have to clear up his message and he will have to listen.

8 minutes ago, Chris B said:

He can't keep having moments like this back-to-back and stay at the top of the pack. His team is gonna have to clear up his message and he will have to listen.

 

His team could try, but I'm afraid it'll all be for naught.  Biden's like Trump in that he possesses this curious knack of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time; and if enough are convinced that Biden will be another Trump (only one who swings to the left...for the most part), then either they'll vote third party again or just stay home (again).

 

And yet, I still think he's the best shot we have at getting Trump out of the WH.

 

This is going to be one rough ride, folks.

9 hours ago, Khan said:

 

His team could try, but I'm afraid it'll all be for naught.  Biden's like Trump in that he possesses this curious knack of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time; and if enough are convinced that Biden will be another Trump (only one who swings to the left...for the most part), then either they'll vote third party again or just stay home (again).

 

And yet, I still think he's the best shot we have at getting Trump out of the WH.

 

This is going to be one rough ride, folks.

I don't believe anyone thinks Biden is like Trump. 2 old men is where it ends.One has gaffes, the other one lies endlessly.  My lack of enthusiasm for Biden goes back many years, but lord it's not like I wouldn't vote for him in a GE. 

 

Americans have a short memory. What happens if  Biden wins and 4 years after, people are again frustrated as heck with Washington and the GOP puts up Trump on steroids(IMO that is a Cheney like figure) - someone who is evil and smart and has smart people working for him. Perhaps I am not factoring in the racial resentment that was THE factor due to Obama being president that elected Trump. But for all Biden's return to norms idea(I am not entirely opposed) there are still foundational issues that are far more serious than some of the resentments the purists scream. Buttigieg is right about one thing. The most critical issue is to fix our democracy and that won't happen if the GOP stays on the crazy train and Biden thinks we can just turn the clock back to 2016. We need institutional reform - we have needed it for years long before Trump - would Biden help lead an effort like that? If not what would come after him? I actually think him coming out in support of HR1 or some of the policies surrounding it would potentially calm down some of the AOC's of the world a bit.

 

And on a side note, if the consensus is we need a white guy, follow Steve Bullock. Obviously he's not been visible due to his lateness in entering the race, but he's someone I have followed for a long time.  He's a pragmatist but he does have some progressive stances. He's affable and smart.  He's kind of a less clumsy version of Michael Bennett.

Edited June 29, 20196 yr by JaneAusten

A legacy of the Trump years, perhaps.

 

Recreational drug use surges worldwide, a UN study reports https://t.co/iyeD2dWEte

— Bloomberg (@business) June 29, 2019

 

 

Everyday I'm more disgusted by what goes on in this country.