Dark Shadows Discussion Thread

[saynotoursoap]

No, I do not think so. Nancy Barrett was originally submitted to test for Victoria, not Carolyn, and even Barrett admitted that she was wrong for the part. I thought Nancy was perfect for Carolyn and Moltke was perfect for Victoria. The problem was not in the characters but in the way the parts were written. Alex simply wanted something meatier to play, less naïve, and well, less thick. I think Carl is right. The contemporary writing up through 1967 worked well, and I feel it worked because the writers incorporated real emotions and struggles into the fantasy aspects. After 1967, characterization largely took a backseat to special effects and plotting. This is where Dark Shadows began to fall apart.

[danfling]

I think that Ms. Moltke was right for Victoria and that Ms. Barrett was perfect for Carolyn.

I especially enjoyed Carolyn during the time that Elizabeth was in the hospital, having been put there due to a type of spell placed by Laura.

Carolyn had always been somewhat passive in family buisiness, and Roger needed her approval or signature on some papers. Rather than continueing to be pasive, she took an interest in the situation. She refused to sign anything until she understood what she was signing, and she stood up to her Uncle Roger (who had always called her "Kitten").

Art Wallace or Frances Swann only allowed for an episode or possibly two, then, when Elizabeth returned to Collinwood, Carolyn acted the same way ths had, with a heightened curiosity about her father and a hatred for both Jason and Willie.

The writers should have allowed the independent Carolyn to have remained.

[DRW50]

That was a fun time. I remember when she was dating the motorcycle guy, Buzz, with the immortal line of dialogue, "I dig Buzz! He digs me!"

I wasn't fond of the early Carolyn stories, with Burke, but that story made her come into her own.

[Soaplovers]

It seemed like when Barnabas became a breakout character, all efforts to write for the other characters went by the wayside... I remember in one episode after Jason Mcguire was exposed, he and Vicki had a confrontation at the Blue Whale where he made mention that he regretted not staying in town long enough to see Miss Morality (Vicki) fall from grace...and asked her who she was and where she came from... hinting that he knew something about Victoria's past, but wouldn't give any details.

Nothing was followed up on... I think that Vicki's past should have been the next story to run at the same time as the Barnabas story...

[DRW50]

I hadn't thought about that. They had a few stories which seemed to hint at later stuff, never developed - I think there was a hint of some mystery about a home Burke and Vicky were going to buy.

[Soaplovers]

I think the home was suppose to be a wedding gift to them by Elizabeth, but there was a clause stating that only a member of the Collins could reside in.. It was a 100 year clause.. and they were several years away from the clause expiring. Elizabeth stated that once the clause expired, she would give them the house.

I bet that the plan at that time was still to have Vicki be Paul's daughter, not Elizabeth's daughter. I read a blind item that Art Wallace & Dan Curtis clashed over that very story.. Art Wallace wanted Vicki to be Paul's daughter, while Dan Curtis wanted to go the Elizabeth's daughter route.

I think by the time Art Wallace had left, the focus was primarily on Barnabas, Julia, and on Vicki to a lesser extent. She would mention being an orphan all the way through the 1795 story.. but not sure if she discussed being an orphan once the 1795 story concluded or not.

[saynotoursoap]

Regardless of who wanted what in management and despite Jon Frid's breakout status, I felt TPTB should have been more accommodating to Alex. She really was not asking a great deal from the production. Would it have been so difficult to make Victoria less clueless and occasionally give her an alternate character to play who was less saintly? I think it was a mistake to let her go so easily. The scene in which she (Alex's Vicky) is in her wedding gown, hugs Joan Bennett, and says "Collinwood will always be my home" is so poignant to me, because it's the closest we ever really get to Elizabeth and Vicky sharing a real mother and daughter moment. I am saddened at what could have been but was not.

Edited April 21, 2013 by saynotoursoap

[DRW50]

They seemed to sort of shrug off both Moltke and Joel Crothers (who could have played a great heel if they'd let him - I wasn't a huge fan of the Nathan Forbes story, but he played it well). Perhaps they saw them as part of some old guard.

[Soaplovers]

I always saw Victoria as the everywoman of the show, when Alexandra left the show, I think a part of the show died with her leaving. Despite the show attempting to replace Victoria with Maggie, Roxanne, and Daphne... it seems as if Victoria was a vital piece that couldn't be replaced.

Why else would the show have gone to Alexandra to have her come back. I'm sure she would have agreed to come back as Victoria if she was given another character to play at alternate times.

It wasn't as if she was asking for a pay increase, just a new challenge,.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Soaplovers

[saynotoursoap]

A few years ago the was fan fiction online from an author with the non de plume Charles Delaware Troll. He/she wrote a full year of daily DS episodes beginning April 5, 1971 and running through April 1972. It was a "what if" scenario assuming the series had not been canceled by ABC. The story was quite good actually. Victoria returned in one of three story arcs played out over the twelve months, and The writer gave Alex her wish of playing something meatier. If a fan could have given what she wanted, Russell and Hall certainly could have, too.

I agree with Soaplovers. At least to me, Victoria was integral to DS. The story was seen through her eyes. It was she who opened the series before we ever even saw Collinsport, Maine or its inhabitants. The series was never quite the same after she left, and killing her so cavalierly offscreen in another time band added insult to injury.

[jam6242]

John Karlen is apparently ill and in a hospital/rehabilitation center.

The Collinsport Historical Society

From Marie Hentz Maginity: "John Karlen is at Studio City Rehabilition Center, 11429 Ventura Blvd, Studio City, CA 91604 in Room 10. Adam (his son) says our guy could use some major cheering up so everyone please write a letter or send a card."

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=622419927770738&l=fbb2ae0dae

[EricMontreal22]

Awww--Willie. I hope he gets better.

[Vee]

The poor man. All my best.

I do agree that after 1795 or maybe the initial Quentin story if you're being generous, the individual personalities and lives of any character who was not Barnabas, Julia, Quentin or any of the monsters or at times the kids largely fell by the wayside. Nancy Barrett always infused Carolyn with so much fire, but not much of it was on the page - Joan Bennett, Louis, Katie Scott, etc. all did what they could with what little they had for Liz, Roger and Maggie. And it's a shame because when you do watch the early years of the show these characters were all full, layered and rich. It always felt to me as a teenage viewer that when the show lost Alex, as well as Joel Crothers and David Ford, it turned its back on so much of that. (Mitchell Ryan was also fantastic as the original Burke, a force to be reckoned with, but he took himself out of the equation.)

I think had the show wanted to survive it would've had to transition to somethng more soapy, more on par with Edge of Night. I remember the idea being floated by online fans of having Roger and Julia fall in love - using Louis Edmonds as a witty, urbane rival to Barnabas for her - which I think, shockingly enough, might have worked. It would have required making Roger into something other than a clueless buffoon for the first time in years, but hey.

I will agree KLS was forced into a square hole to try and make Maggie into Vicki. But I think she did a very solid job of it in the 1968 Quentin story. She was a trouper no matter what, but she so rarely got to show what she was really made of as an actress. I loved Virginia Vestoff as Samantha but I do often think about what Katie could've done with that part, a la Kitty Soames only spikier.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Vee

[EricMontreal22]

Absolutely. While not in the same league, the same thing happened to Port Charles--they needed to pull back.

I always wonder if Agnes Nixon was a fan==she hired Art Wallace at AMC, Gordon Russell (who I assume came with Sam Hall) for One Life, etc.

[allmc2008]

I always thought DS should have toned down the supernatural a little bit and amp it up during the summer. During the rest of the year they could focus good old fashion Gothic stories soaps love to tell with a few supernatural happenings. That would have been good for the writers to take a breather from the Supernatural so the summers would be a lot fresher.