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The Mitchells are losers, butch Shirley and that fat girl included. Can't Lucas off Phil? That would make watching this show instantly more gratifying.

In opposition, I really enjoy the Fox's. Not really Lucas. But Denise, Chelsea, Jordan, and especially Kim. All great.

I refuse to care for Sonny Valentine ... Blech. And as I hate this Zsa Zsa loser, Lucy getting under her skin was very welcomed.

Darren/Max/Vanessa/Jodie has my attention. All likable characters ... so far.

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Today's episode

Denise really seems to be coming into her own as a character, and Diane Parish was really good in today's episode with her scenes with Lucas and Jordan.

I like Jodie, but she seems a little too cutesy. I'm sure we'll learn more about her she goes on, and I do like the rapport she has with Darren. I laughed when she thought George was a dog. :lol:

LOL! at Darren walking in on Max and Vanessa screwing in the office.

Shirley's leopard outfit that she wore to court was a Kat Slater Moon outfit. When I think of EastEnders and leopard prints, I think of my girl Kat.

Nice to see Jane back, and I did enjoy Lucy digging into Zsa Zsa. I don't think we've seen these school sets until recently because I don't ever recall seeing them before.

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I can't wait until Zsa Zsa is gone. It's ridiculous seeing this giant person towering the hallway. She looked like she was going to start munching on the brains of the students.

The Adam/Lucy stuff -- I guess this is setting up Adam's exit? He's so unbearable.

Poor Jane had such a low-key return. I felt bad for her when she realized Lucy wasn't all that interested in her vacation.

I really liked the stuff with Denise, especially when she realized Lucas was about to hit her. I think centering this story on Denise works much better than all the stuff with Lucas quoting Bible verses.

Phil and his drinking and Shirley and her strongarm tactics contrasted with Denise convincing Jordan to do the right thing -- we're supposed to see Phil and Shirley as being in the wrong...I hope?

Jodie was way too cutesy but she didn't bother me too much. I can see why she believed George was a dog, not a baby, with the way Heather described him. I've never been a big fan of Darren's but I think he's come along well recently. He has an entertaining relationship with Max. He's probably the son Max would have had if he hadn't abandoned Bradley :(

Good call on Shirley's outfit. I think she'd probably get along with Kat. It's interesting that Phil was startled at how easily Shirley sees Ben as being a criminal like Phil is.

Natalie Cassidy says she might return to Eastenders, but it doesn't sound like she's had an offer:

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a224214/cassidy-i-might-return-to-eastenders.html

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Sonia needs to just never come back, or just die off-screen. What an AWFUL character she became as she got older, not to mention, and I know looks aren't everything, but Natalie Cassidy is one of the ugliest people physically I've ever seen.

Sonia's time and story is over on this show...

Edited by Y&RWorldTurner
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I was shocked a few years later when I got to see the early episodes, 1985, 1986, 1987. The canvas was so racially diverse, but more than that, everyone mingled. There was no quota system, as the woman who played Yolande so succintly slammed after she was fired.

I find this so interesting. When you look at how society was in the 70s/80s, and then how different or more excepting soaps portrayed life back then, is quite polarizing, IMO. More diversity on EE, which was less of an issue; more openness in the Oz soaps (Neighbours could talk about sex and abortion freely; Number 96 and Chances had gay couples); even US soaps were more progressive then, than they are now (Erica's termination on AMC, and now that ghastly rewrite). Where did it all go wrong? Why has the soap industry regressed so much? There shouldn't be a racial quota; gay characters shouldn't be taboo; minorities shouldn't be tokens or segregated from the rest of the canvas.

ETA: I never want to see Sonia again. Her brief return for Bianca's wedding was more than enough.

Also, I'm loving how the characters are interacting more with people they probably wouldn't have, under Santa - I.e: Liz/Grace/Vanessa; Lucas/Zainab; Ian/teens. I also liked the book club/lingerie party - it was nice seeing Bianca/Heather/Zainab/Denise/Kim/Marie interact after months of being isolated.

Edited by Ben
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I think that there was much more of a commitment to social justice and diversity in the 80s. There was an ugly backlash against this in the 90s, at least in the States. I think the other thing is that Eastenders was introduced as an attempt to show real life in the East End, which meant many faces of many colors. Julia Smith and Tony Holland were committed to talking about issues which no one else on soaps had talked about, like arranged marriages. There was other stuff which might get an eye-roll now but at the time must have been so startling, and still goes on today, like the scenes where Lou Beale mistook Kelvin Carpenter for a burglar and even after she realized who he was and tried to be nicer to him, said things like, "You can't blame me, you all look alike." Or when Kelvin's mother said that he has to work twice as hard as any white boy.

Now you have someone like Chelsea, who is only there just to fill a slot, and who has often been treated in a shockingly degrading manner, from being used and discarded by various men to her stories about being sent to prison and being hooked on drugs, which went nowhere.

I think another thing is Eastenders became so enormously successful and the BBC probably thought the show was successful for Den and Angie, for the loud, flashy American style soap characters. When Den and Angie were on the way out, didn't the BBC bring in a lot of safe, white characters, mainly comedy characters, like the woman who was in charge of the Brownies? Then they flopped, and you got the Mitchell brothers, and the Mitchells dominated the show ever since. It became a show with the Mitchells...and other people. It doesn't help that for so many years any attempt to bring in a new minority family was very blatant in them only being brought in because of their skin color, and that was supposed to be enough. The di Marcos, the Ferrieras, even the Truemans, where the woman who played the Trueman mother complained about stereotypes and was fired.

I guess the Taverniers were the last family to sort of be integrated into the Square, although even that had its limits.

The Masoods, at least what they were before the Syed story hurt them, and potentially the Foxes, or Mercy's family, perhaps they will take the show back to its roots, where you see a rainbow of very fascinating, complex people.

So did you see my Kathy comeback story idea? :lol:

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Stacey's giving birth spoilers:

Wed 23rd June

Stacey is forced to accept help from Ryan when she goes into labour, and he gets her through a difficult birth at the hospital, but the new mother is left feeling guilty when Dot says her baby looks just like Bradley.

Apparently, before this, Janine also tells Stacey that the only reason Ryan kissed her was because of their bet, which should make Ryan assisting her with the birth even more uncomfortable.

So, I wonder, when does Ryan find out he's the father?

Edited by Y&RWorldTurner
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The Masoods, at least what they were before the Syed story hurt them, and potentially the Foxes, or Mercy's family, perhaps they will take the show back to its roots, where you see a rainbow of very fascinating, complex people.

So did you see my Kathy comeback story idea? :lol:

I think the Masoods will be fine. But there really isn't that much left to the Foxes, once Chelsea and Libby leave - it'll be a very scattered family after that. Plus, I just can't see them introducing Mercy's family. What I can see, is Grace and Mercy inevitably moving in with Patrick and Denise, after Grace and Patrick get together.

Controversial, but maybe they should introduce Becca's family? But then, she's such a non entity as it is, and seems to be universally loathed...

I really liked your idea, Carl. Except, I'm not too fond of the Masood/Jane angle, even though I loved their potential at the beginning, it just feels like they've ruined all of that. But, I can totally see the show shoving in that angle. I really want Kathy back, now.

So, I wonder, when does Ryan find out he's the father?

It doesn't feel organic at the moment for Ryan to learn the truth. I guess, if the baby has a health scare... Otherwise, why would Stacey tell at all?

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I reckon Mercys family is just what EE need right now. Fresh blood into the square that will please everyone.

Anyway i have just finished watching Chrissie get caught back in November and to be honest seeing it now, i am kind of dissapointed. I wish that it could have been much more explosive or much more dramatic. Instead she just got smacked in the mouth and got her arm caught by police.

This is how i would have done it.

After Chrissie signed the Vic over to Ian (Which we all know Chrissie didnt own The Vic) Jake gets a rent a car while Chrissie & Ian are in the vic. After the deal The Mitchells,Dennis & Sharon,Kat & Stacey And The Police manage to see her and thus an epic chase prevails. The Mitchells are in Grant`s SUV,Kat & Stacey are in Charlie`s cab,Sharon & Dennis in a car from the car lot and The two detectives (DI Riddick & The other one) in the police car. They pursue Chrissie all the way to the edge of a cliff in which Chrissie & Jake ditch the car and try running on foot. Jake gets

caught and Chrissie continues to run. Chrissie stands on the edge of a cliff in which the police sirens are not far ahead. During which Chrissie has a final conversation with either -

Grant Mitchell

Phil Mitchell

Peggy Mitchell

Billy Mitchell

Dennis Rickman

Sharon Rickman

Kat Slater

Stacey Slater

DI Riddick

After one of these conversations,Chrissie says "I`m Sorry" and falls off the cliff commiting suicide.

After that Sam is released and then the soap would continue as normal.

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So that is 4 on the Lucas chopping block.

Poor girl and i actually kind of liked her.

Jodie & Vanessa have fitted in already.

Ben ready for his exit i see

Gotta love Shirley.

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I think the Masoods will be fine. But there really isn't that much left to the Foxes, once Chelsea and Libby leave - it'll be a very scattered family after that. Plus, I just can't see them introducing Mercy's family. What I can see, is Grace and Mercy inevitably moving in with Patrick and Denise, after Grace and Patrick get together.

Controversial, but maybe they should introduce Becca's family? But then, she's such a non entity as it is, and seems to be universally loathed...

I really liked your idea, Carl. Except, I'm not too fond of the Masood/Jane angle, even though I loved their potential at the beginning, it just feels like they've ruined all of that. But, I can totally see the show shoving in that angle. I really want Kathy back, now.

I don't care for Masood/Jane but I also feel like it's already been building and can't be dropped now. I'd rather it be written for what it is, which is sanctimonious and somewhat adulterous. And if Kathy came back I could see that story as being interesting because Kathy herself had some quasi-adulterous relationships while married (like the one with the boring vicar, which I guess eventually became a full on affair). Seeing Kathy's reaction, if she would be angry or if she would sympathize with Jane, would be good drama.

I do like Jane still but Masood's growing hypocrisy and double standards have caused me to feel increasing dislike for this character. The Syed story and the need to prop him has really wrecked that family :(

I think they can still have potential for the Foxes with Libby and Chelsea gone. The show has done very little with either of Denise's daughters. There's still Jordan, and also Kim, and the relationship between Kim and Denise, and possibly other members of Denise's family.

I think Becca had a LOT of potential at the start but they never have written her as anything beyond a plot device for Stacey's story. It's almost embarrassing how little they have bothered with her outside of that area. There's still a possibility but I'm not sure if the show cares.

New photos of Kim.

http://www.walfordweb.co.uk/item.php?id=2476

Edited by CarlD2
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I thought today's show was, overall, decent.

The question going around and around my head is still whether or not we're supposed to be happy for Phil and Shirley over getting Ben back in their lives or whether we are supposed to see Ben as disturbed. Were we supposed to be sad or a bit creeped out about Ben needing to know Phil was proud of him for nearly killing Jordan? The lines about Louise mean the show hasn't forgotten Ben abusing Louise, right? Anyway, I felt very sorry for Ben in those last few scenes. He has some major issues. Beyond that, I liked that they had a small moment of comedy in those tense scenes at the station, when Shirley farted.

I liked the character integration throughout the episode, mostly what was done with Shirley/Denise/Heather/Liz, especially the scenes at the Vic when Lucas grabbed Denise for a kiss. Aside from the odious Phil-propping, Heather is much more tolerable these days. I liked when she said her mother told her lipstick was for hussies, then said she was thinking of wearing some. I loved the scene where Heather thought Liz had a thing for Max. :lol:

The scenes of Lucas killing the woman from the club were somewhat choppy, due to the reshoot, but I actually prefer this idea to the idea of Lucas killing a prostitute. While I can understand why people might think this is out of character for Lucas, as Lucas would probably be more likely to kill if he thought he had some noble reason, I think it was important to make sure viewers knew that nothing this woman did warranted her being killed. There are still a lot of people out there who shrug at the idea of prostitutes being murdered. While I'm sure some might say this woman was stupid to follow Lucas out into the middle of nowhere, she didn't deserve to die, and the show put that across. Don Gilet did a good job with the scenes and that last shot of the claw marks on his neck was chilling.

While I'm not sure what story is left for Jodie and Darren now that most of the lies are gone, I'm glad she quickly realized he wasn't running the car lot and she said she was fine with it. She's really not very stupid, even if she has a dippy personality. The Darren/Max banter can sometimes be a little bit much, thanks to Darren, but generally I like their scenes together. I also liked the scene where Vanessa basically told Max she didn't see what was wrong with having him as a bit of rough on the side. It's an interesting switch of gender roles.

Do you notice how the Jacksons seem increasingly cut off from the rest of the Square? Most of the scenes with Bianca and Carol at war over Liam were isolated from everything and the same was true for Carol and Whitney saying goodbye to smug Billie. Considering this family being related to so many people, the lack of integration is surprising. The tension between Carol and Whitney isn't much fun to watch. I just wish Carol could have another story.

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Apparently, Kirkwood said in one of the mags that Ricky and Bianca would be getting a new story soon. He said it would be "a bit of tragedy and happiness." He didn't give any specifics.

Edited by Y&RWorldTurner
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