Love of Life Discussion Thread

[Mona Kane Croft]

I'm not an expert on Rick's history, so it this Diana the same character as Diana Lamont?  If not, it seems odd the show would have two different characters named Diana at almost the same time.  By the time I started watching daily, it was the Labine era and Diana was married to Charles Lamont and I believe having an affair with Jamie Rollins.  

Also regarding Rick's son Hank -- you mentioned he was born around 1963, but if I remember correctly, by the late-1970s Hank had not appeared as an adult.  Is that correct?  That is unusually slow for a soap opera legacy character to grow up.   

[dc11786]

Sorry, I meant Barbara Sterling and Rick Latimer´s marriage.  

I don´t think either Hank had been aged. Tess and Bill´s son Johnny Prentiss was also still a child but I believe he was born a few years later (late 60s). The age gap was probably reduced and I think they were about the same age. 

Years ago, I thought I read that either Johnny or Hank were suppose to return had the show continued and that Peter Reckell was cast, but that is strictly rumor. 

[Paul Raven]

Elizabeth was the adopted daughter of the Nazi doctor Kenneth Wanberg. After he was arrested Elizabeth stayed on and was living with Van and Bruce. 

She was a Pickard/Provo character and involved with Jimmy Stanhope and Tony Vento.

Not sure how long that all played out. Maybe late 65 /early 66? OTTOMH I think Robert Shaw was next headwriter and he probably dropped a lot of those characters.

[Khan]

Good question, @dc11786!

Depending on how well Ann Marcus' material might have been received under better circumstances (better timeslot, more affiliate clearances, etc.), I think CBS would have held onto her, at least for awhile.  Abbi, however, probably would have been replaced with a more competent producer.  The question is, who would have been available in 1980 to take over producing duties, who also had a good, if not great, track record beforehand?

If I had been in charge at CBSD, I would have tried to tempt John Conboy away from Y&R.  Not just because of Y&R's success up to that point, but also because he and Marcus had been a very good team for the most part at LIAMST.  Other candidates might have included H. Wesley Kenney (DAYS), Bud Kloss (AMC) and maybe even Hardy again.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Khan

[dc11786]

@KhanI would hope they would keep Ann Marcus, but I would probably want to hire some subwriters to improve the scripts. The story seems strong, but the episodes I´ve seen don´t always draw me in as much I would like. I would probably try to get someone like Frank Salsibury. 

If they did replace Marcus, I would probably want Rick Edelstein (based on his work on ¨How to Survive a Marraige¨) or Jane Avery (based on her work with her ex-husband Ira on ¨Secret Storm¨). My final consideration would be A.J. Russell (based on his work on ¨Somerset¨). 

For EP, I was thinking Jackie Babbin, but she wouldn´t have done ¨All My Children¨ yet so her style might be different if she hadn´t worked on that show first. Babbin would have still been an ABC executive but I believe would have produced some nighttime work. 

 

[Khan]

Being a fan of Frank Salisbury's, I definitely approve adding him to the writing staff, lol. 

The thing is, Ann Marcus tended to use her own stable of writers at each show she worked on: Jerry Adelman, Rocci Chatfield, Raymond Goldstone (her brother), Ken Hartman/Daniel Gregory Browne, Laura Olsher, Joyce Perry, etc.  (Notably, she kept Elizabeth Harrower on the staff when she took over HW'ing duties at DAYS, but probably lived to regret it when Harrower subsequently maneuvered her out of the job and off the show).  So I don't know whether she would have been receptive to having associate writers foisted on her, for lack of a better word.

Rick Edelstein, Jane Avery and A.J. Russell are all solid choices, @dc11786.  Especially Edelstein (who is mentioned in Barbra Streisand's autobiography, by the way, as is her former acting teacher, Allan Miller (ex-Dave Siegel, OLTL; et al)).  He and Rita Lakin (another hypothetical replacement for Ann Marcus) were the only two writers whose work on THE DOCTORS I could tolerate.

As for EP, what if CBSD had been able to snag Jorn Winther to replace Cathy Abbi before he began work at AMC?

[Soaplovers]

The episodes/scenes that were uploaded on YT awhile back from the final week or so of the show really highlights that the show was in transition.

Perhaps because of the timeslot change, Marcus was brought on in order to infuse the show with more youthful/modern characters/stories.  You could have tell what was 1979/80 modern and what was still kind of stuck in the late 70s rut.

The Betsy/Ben/Mia/Eliot (I think that was his name) seemed very melodramatic/old fashion while the Arlene story seemed right out of the 40s.  You contrast that with Amy/Lianne/Kelly as more modern vibrant women of 1979/80... and then you have Bambi that I didn't see much of.. but obviously Marcus found her interesting enough to keep on.

The thing about the final episode that intrigued me was the Arlene story.. because that last scene with her walking out of the room while her d bag husband begs her to stay gave me hope that maybe Marcus was going to finally give Arlene some dignity/strength after the abuse she had from Ben and then her current louse of a husband.

[Khan]

Ah, the strange, sad case of one Bambi Brewster, lol.

I do not know much about the character or her storyline - all that I know, I have gleaned from reading about her on message boards - but she might be a classic, textbook example of a minor/supporting character who becomes a lead literally overnight.  In fact, I once joked that the show should have been renamed LOVE OF BAMBI.

[dc11786]

I'd considered Jorn Winther because of what I know he did for "Generations" and some of the influence I can see on the later half of "Rituals." Winther and Raymond Goldstone (Marcus' brother) worked together for several months on "Rituals" with the interracial romance between rich girl Julia Field and cop Lucky Washington, the son of the family maid as well as a story about a group of white supremacists who kidnapped C.J. Field's son Mark because the group was anti-semitic (C.J. was Jewish). At the very least, Jorn Winther's show would have been a bit more diverse, which it desperately needed. 

I can see what you are saying about the show being in transition. I think there were definitely a lot of moving parts that hadn't completely settled. The true younger set was one area of development Marcus hadn't gotten to a place she was happy with. Originally, Marcus took Amy Niles' Gina Gaspero, Ray's kid sister, and paired her up with Marcus' creation Wes Osbourne, III, who was Mia's younger brother. Gina and Wes had a summer story where Wes deflowered her, Gina thought she might be pregnant, and then she had a bad trip after consuming a pot brownie at a party with Christy Bringham (Leah Ayres). Gina was dumped in September and Wes was shipped off to school (I suspect Woody Brown took a leave to film the "Flamingo Road" telefilm). Wes only returned in November after dropping out of school and went to work at the disco. Kelly Wilson was added in January, 1980, and Cheryl I think was introduced in the final week. 

The Ben / Betsy story was definitely melodramatic. Under Holloway, the story was rather hookey. Betsy was divorcing Eliot and starting to date Ben, but, in order to secure custody, all of their dates had to be chaperoned by Timothy MacCauley. Holloway's work is really bad. Marcus added the political campaign which gave Eliot Lang additional motivation to keep his marriage to Betsy in tact. The rape added the child, which was a complication that Ben was really struggling to get over (that Eliot and Betsy would be tied together by a child). The boating accident set in motion by Mia's duiplicitious phone call and all the events that followed certainly sound a bit high drama. I don't mind this sort of material as long as the scripts are strong, but I don't get that sense from what I've seen. 

Marcus leaned into the melodrama though. I believe during Meg's paralysis story the reason that Lianne performed Meg's surgery, despite Lianne being under suspension or only being an intern, was because the surgeon had a heart attack while in the operating room. 

Arlene and Ray's stuff just doesn't work for me in any incarnation. I think initially they are just the defacto parents for Gina during the summer plot; Marcus shipped the parents off to Italy for a vacation in June, 1979. Later, Hal Carson (the cop from the Des Moines Bambi Brewster paternity plot) was brought to Rosehill as a spoiler for Ray and Arlene. They were in the plane crash (which happened the same month as the boating accident) which left Ray to think they had conceived the baby during their time in the woods, even though Arlene knew she was pregnant prior to this. 

Why the show kept Arlene out of Ben's orbit is a mystery to me.

I'm not even sure when Bambi first appeared. I think it was some time early in 1978 when Gabrielle Upton was writing, but, of course, Jean Holloway went and made the question of her paternity a major mystery in Des Moines, Iowa, with a bunch of imposters and slick figures trying to keep the mystery going for God knows what reason. 

As I recall, I don't think Ann Marcus dumped any contact player when she arrived (Tom Crawford was recast, but I think Weber's contract was up and he wasn't renewing). Ann McCarty lucked out because Marcus was finally allowed to tell her reuniting with a child abandoned during the Vietnam War story she had been trying to tell for the past five or so years (originally, it was pitched for a returned Mia Elliot on LIAMST and later for Chris Kositchek on DOOL). 

The Vietnam story ended the last week of the show. I'd be curious if Marcus would have kept Bambi and Tony on or married them off and shipped them out. 

[Khan]

This makes me laugh for some reason.  Did Jean Holloway think she still was writing THE FIRST HUNDRED YEARS?

[Soaplovers]

I wish Halloway's stint was available...just to see how these tales looked on screen.

The Bambi Brewster tale sounds like a bad attempt at combining a Stella Dallas type of story with a C movie film noir plotline

And chaperoned dates???

@dc11786If I could guess who to write off, I think Bambi/Tony could possibly have gotten married and moved close to where his son was.

I also think Mia could have been written off once the trial was resolved..as well as Elliot perhaps.

And I would have found a way to bring Arlene back into the Ben/Betsy orbit...or even become a complication for Tom/Lianne.  Arlene had pasts with Ben and Tom...and she could be an effective thorn in Betsy's side...since both her love and brother were taking care of Arlene.

Would have been an effective use of history.  Think how Guiding Light mined the Ed/Holly connection which drove Maureen/Roger crazy....the same thing could have happened with Arlene in terms of Tom and Ben.

[Khan]

Question for longtime LOL fans: what was the deal with the Asian hitwoman?  In one of the very few LOL-related promos that I have viewed on YT, there was/is an Asian hitwoman who apparently has been contracted to kill one of the men in Rosehill.  Who was her target, and did she succeed?

[dc11786]

I'm starting to pull the weekly summaries for 1978 for "Love of Life" to get a sense of the show before Holloway and Abbi arrive. I had forgotten that Upton's final months were actually building to something interesting (not sure if it was sustainable). Anyway, reviews of Holloway's work in print typically have accused her of writing for radio, which she had. I'm not even sure what the point of the search was. 

I think Ben and Betsy needed a new direction after all the high melodrama. With Meg on her way out, I would have shifted Mia as a leg in the Tom/Lianne story with having Lianne involved in a professional / quasi romantic relationship with Andrew Marriott. With Mia's brother Wes setting out to pursue Lianne's sister Kelly, I think having a Tom / Mia connection might have been worth pursuing as it would have allowed more Lianne / Mia conflict and more Betsy/Mia conflict. I also would have brought back Andy Marriott as another leg in the younger set triangle. 

I don't think Tony or Bambi had more story left in them. Eliot as the big bad would work for me. I wouldn't even be against somehow moving him towards Amy Russell as this sorta toxic power couple who would have thrived in the 1980s especially if Amy's voice of reason love interest was someone like Alan Sterling.

I would have dumped Hal Carson, the cop who wanted Arlene. I think having Arlene wanting to raise her children independently would have been more compelling in the long run. Though, I would have done the custody fight and have had Ray show up in the courtroom with his surprise new wife, a new Meg.  

I think you are mixing up two of the promos. In one of the promos, Arlene and Ray are nearly killed by a glass of poisoned wine, which a hotel maid decided to drink instead. This was from the Bambi Brewster story, probably in February/March, 1979, when Ray is trying to find Bambi's father. In the other promo, Bambi and Tony are being all lovey dovey and the mystery Asian woman threatens their happiness. She wasn't, however, a hitwoman. That promo I think was from September, 1979, but I could be wrong. 

The woman was Kim Soo Ling. She had been a nurse during the Vietnam War and had been Tony Alfonso's lover. Tony was a chef at one of the establishments in Rosehill and had become involved with Bambi Brewster. When Bambi and Tony grew closer, Kim arrived in town with a secret, she had had Tony's child and given it up for adoption. She needed Tony's help in getting back in contact with, or getting custody of the child. Kim ended up workign at Rosehill Hospital as a nurse's aide or as a nurse. She and Tony tracked down their son, Tran, to his adopted family in California. I believe the adopted mother was sick and didn't have long to live. Kim and Tony agreed to let Tran stay with his adopted family in the final weeks of the show. I believe Irene Yah Ling Sun played Kim from 1979-1980.

[Khan]

Thank you, @dc11786, for clarifying that for me.  I knew I must have mixed up things somehow, lol.

Regardless of how I had conflated them in my memory, though, those promos were just weird to me.  If not for the fact that LOL was long gone and that tapes of past episodes are scarce on the Internet, I would have been intrigued enough to tune in and watch the show "live" just to see what the heck was going on, lol.

One other question: in another promo, or maybe in the same promo(s) as mentioned before, there is a shot of two people, a man and a woman, laughing and carrying on while showering together.  Who are they?  I mean, whoever they are, they certainly were/are having a great time, lol.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Khan

[dc11786]

The final years of "Love of Life" are intriguing because it is all over the place. I think tonally you are seeing previews from a producer who had experience on "Young and the Resteless." Stylistically, that comes across in the mood of the promos, at least to me. Then, you got the writing that is straight out of "When a Girl Marries" which just is such a contrast to slicker look of the promos. 

As I am piecing together the Jon-Michael Reed and Lynda Hirsch summaries, something that is standing out is there are some significant set changes when Cathy Abbi came on. Bruce accepts the position as a professor at Rosehill College and moves into Timothy McCauley's old house, which is a new set. A few weeks later Ray buys a new house for Arlene. Mind you, the disco was introduced just prior to Abbi's arrival (August, 1978) and Elliot and Betsy arrived in July, 1978, so they needed a place to stay. Add in the cast turnover, it is a pretty massive overhaul. I know she was still at "Days of our Lives," but it would have been interesting to see how things would have shaken out had Ann Marcus arrived in November, 1978, rather than May, 1979. I think cancellation would have been hard to avoid, but creatively I wonder where things would have gone.

I am pretty positive it is Ray and Arlene Slater in the shower. The dude definitely is Lloyd Battista and the actress playing Arlene seemed to dye her hair a lot in those last few years. That final puffy dark hair look at the end is a lot.