Love of Life Discussion Thread

[FrenchFan]

Oh thanks ! As it was mentionned Rick might not come back, I thought it was the recast. False assumption. Thanks !

[FrenchFan]

I bought some scripts from Packard / Provo in 1965. If I didn't make any mistake, here is what I found:

Frederic Rolf (Dr. Kenneth Wannberg) was introduced in January 1965 along with Sybil White (Elizabeth Wannberg). The mad scientist was involved in a short term plot when he got revenge against Bruce for a trial he got convincted in years ago in Germany. After pushing Link Porter to alcoholism and drugging Barbara, the characted was arrested on June 14th 1965.

Around the same time, Paul Saviour (Rick Latimer) left. It was not a planned departure apparently. He last appeared on June 16th 1965

As the Wannberg storyline ended, Packard / Provo introduced a new plot involving schoolboys. The Stanhope family (James, his wife Frances who was sleeping with Dirk the chauffeur and their son Jimmy) were introduced. James was a publisher who got close to Vanessa making Frances jealous. Jimmy had a problematic roomate, Zip Watkins (Martin Hudson) whose father, Edgar (Fred Stewart) was Alan's boss at the bank. In this storyline, Owen Sinclair (William H. Bassett) was the head master of the school.

All these characters in June/July 1965. Fred Stewart (Edgar Watkins), William H. Bassett (Owen Sinclair), Robert LeTourneux (Jimmy Stanhope) first appeared June 21st 1965. Bryon Sanders (James Stanhope Sr.) , Martin Huston (Zip Watkins) in June 24th 1965, Joan DeWeese (Frances Stanhope), Winston DeLugo (Dirk Van Hausen) in July 9th 1965.

[Mona Kane Croft]

It's interesting that Love of Life had rather few permanent legacy characters, leaving much of the casting budget for new (or rotating) characters who would come in and out for particular storylines.  Edge of Night was similar in that regard, but it was more understandable on EON, because it was a murder/mystery soap and and needed new characters for each murder plot.  EON was more plot driven than Love of Life.  I believe it was head writer Claire Labine around 1974-75 who expanded LOL's base of permanent legacy characters when she brought Meg, Ben and other characters who surrounded them back to the show more or less permanently.

Another thing which I am continually surprised by in terms of Love of Life's cast is the length of time Rick Latimer appeared on the show.  He began appearing no later than 1964 (possibly earlier) and I believe the character was still on the show until near the end in 1980.  Aside from Van, Bruce, and Sara Dale, Rick was probably the 4th longest running character. Rick was recast several times, but the characters survived.  He was a cad, but not an out right villain - vaguely similar to John Dixon on ATWT and Roger Thorpe on GL.

[FrenchFan]

Rick was on from 1960 to 1978 I think.

[Mona Kane Croft]

Wow, that is amazing.  Almost 20 years.

[dc11786]

@FrenchFan Thanks for sharing this with us.

Regarding this time period, you have a few things going on. Joe Hardy and Don Ettlinger, who have been working together on the show for a good portion of the early 1960s have departed to launch "A Flame in the Wind" and is about to relaunch as "A Time for Us" at the end of the month pretty much continuing much of the original show's story, but dumping its older female lead (Kathleen Maguire's Kate Austen) and building up the conflict between the Skerba/Driscoll sisters. 

Also, you have NBC sniffing around looking to purchase "Love of Life."

Finally, I put a document in the "Secret Storm" thread a few years back from Roy Winsor where he talked about wanting his shows to be open to having characters who could move in and out of the story. He stated one of the reasons was that actors contractual demands were a problem. At that time, Judy Lewis had something like a 1.5 episode week guarantee or maybe 2 at her own request. I remember thinking that it would be hard to keep her front and center with a guarantee that low. Shifting the characters in and out of the story was something Winsor wanted becasue he felt it would build longevity and that they wouldn't be limited to telling stories with a smaller group of people. 

"Love of Life" always seemed to be a show that was able to evolve based on its heroine Vanessa's journey. The show shifted from Barrowsville to New York City to Rosehill while the other characters came and went. I would be curious to deep dive into which characters went from one locale to the other, while which ones were lost in the shuffle. It seems crazy to me that Ann Loring's Tammy Forrest survived as long as she did given the constant flux of characters, but her status as Vanessa's pal probably left her in position as  B-/C-level heroine. 

[Khan]

Does anyone know roughly the dates when Joseph Hardy produced LOL?  It is so fascinating to me that the same man who directed so many Broadway shows, including "You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown" and "Play It Again, Sam," also produced soap operas.

ETA: AFAIK, Hardy also produced "A Flame in the Wind"/"A Time for Us", LIAMST, RH, LOVING, GH and KNOTS LANDING.  Did he work on any other shows?

Edited December 23, 2023 by Khan

[FrenchFan]

Thanks ! I can totally see what you mean. Going through the scripts, it's really how it worked. A main storyline for months, then another. Alan Sterling barely appeared for months during the Wannberg arc for example. 

[Paul Raven]

The Lamonts were another set of characters that had an extended run. About 10 years I think.

Yes, it was amazing that Rick survived so long, even after Barbara was written out.

And Van was given various surrogate children along the way. Elizabeth after her father was arrested, later Stacy Corby and then Lynn Henderson. However Van's mothering skills may have been questionable as none of these women ever bothered with a return visit once they left Rosehill.

 

[Mona Kane Croft]

I agree. Rick really wasn't permanently connected to any other characters, except his son Hank. So he was sort of a lone-wolf cad who could float from one family or group of characters to another.  So I suppose that made him rather versatile in terms of serving the storyline(s).  And luckily, no writing-team ever wrote him into a corner by having him murder someone or commit some terrible crime which would send him to prison.  And of course, many soap opera cads are eventually murdered themselves, which luckily never happened to Rick.  Again, I see Rick as similar to John Dixon on ATWT, who had an even longer run -- but was also a long-term cad with few real permanent connections to other characters.  Rick and John sort of fulfilled the same role, in a way.  Very few soaps had a long-running character like Rick or John.  The only other example I can think of is Roger Thorpe on Guiding Light, who served a similar function to Rick and John..  But I'll admit Roger was more over-the-top in his behaviors, and he was absent from GL for long periods several times over his run.  I don't believed either Rick or John ever left their respective shows during their long runs, until Larry Bryggman was written off in the mid-2000s.   

[Soaplovers]

Had LOL surived past Feb 1980, I wonder how the show would have changed since the actress playing Meg was rumored to have left once her contract was up.

In the few episodes online from the final weeks, there looked to be some promising characters like Liane, Dana Delaney's character, etc so I wonder if the soap would have become more an esemble instead of focused just on Van/Meg.

 

[Khan]

Good question, @Soaplovers!  Unfortunately, even if LOL had survived past Feb. 1980, I doubt that it would have lasted that much longer.

The way I see it, LOL was trapped in a no-win situation.  Their core audience seemed to be older and more conservative than other soaps'.  Therefore, they were not as willing to embrace whatever changes were necessary in order to make the show more contemporary and competitive with the Bell or ABCD soaps, especially if those changes meant de-emphasizing Vanessa as the show's central heroine.  At the same time, because of its' reputation as being "your mother's soap opera," it seems as if younger audiences for the most part steered clear of LOL, possibly out of the belief that the show had nothing to interest them.

[Soaplovers]

The timeslot change was what killed the show because it moved to a timeslot usually reserved for more youth oriented soaps (i.e Dark Shadows, Edge of Night, etc).

I think had the show stayed in the timeslot it was originally in, it probably would have lasted a few more years at least.

The funniest thing I can recall was that my mom used to watch LOL and actually viewed Loving as almost a replacement for Love of Life in terms of atmosphere.

My thinking is that had the show lasted beyond 1980 till at least 1982/83, I do think that Van/Bruce would probably have been the tentpole characters in terms of giving advice to the other characters.  And that  most of the other characters would have been more youthful with an emphasis on the college and the restaurant/club continuing.

 

[Khan]

I agree.

[dc11786]

I think it was about 1960 to until late 1964, but I am basing that on an article I read years ago from 1963 (or so) when they were discussing how Barbara was considering aborting Rick´s baby (Hank). I believe he produced up until he was working on ¨A Flame in the Wind.¨

This is how some radio soaps worked. There would be a small set of mainstays who would mostly react to the insane actions of short run leads who would come and go once their story reached their natural conclusion. These shows were effective. 

Alan is interesting. I can´t remember if he ever learned that Bruce Sterling wasn´t his biological father. If not, I imagine Marcus would have pulled the scab off that wound at some point because she was supposedly set to bring back both Alan and Barbara in 1980. Alan´s paternity revelation would have probably coincided with the reveal that Amy wasn´t Bruce´s child, which was also set to occur at some point later in the year. 

I´m blanking, who was Elizabeth? 

I think Barbara and Rick´s volatile marriage was similar to Alan and Susan´s on ¨Secret Storm.¨ She was the spoiled daddy´s girl and he was someone who didn´t always color inside the lines of morality. Where Rick seems to luck out is he was already engulfed in story when they decided to write out Barbara with his involvement with Sally Stark´s Kate Swanson. His ties to the Sterling clan as their in-law also allowed Bruce and Vanessa to cluck about Rick´s behavior without it ever really impacting them. 

I find it hard to see Jerry Lacey as this charismatic roguish type given the roles he played on ¨Dark Shadows," but I know that people liked him. Did Rick have any romances between Kate and then the triangle with Cal and Meg? 

Tudi Wiggins leaving would have been a loss for ¨Love of Life,¨ but I think the show could have survived. There was a lot of story going on (Ben/Betsy/Eliot, Hal/Arlene/Ray, Steve/Vanessa/Bruce/Amy, Bambi/Tony/Kim, Kelly/Wes/Cheryl) that Meg´s departure would have just meant some shifting. There seemed to be some attempt at building a Andrew/Lianne relationship, which I imagine could have become the next complication to Lianne/Tom. 

Creatively, ¨Love of Life¨ doesn´t feel like a corpse in 1979/1980 plot summaries the way it does to me in 1978/1979. Ann Marcus really reenergized the show in terms of story, but the damage had been done. When the show changed slots in April, 1979, the show lost about 40 affiliates which meant about a clearance drop of 15%. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if ¨Love of Life¨ had managed to be in the 90s for clearance when Marcus was writing because even when the show was ending she was getting ratings at a 4.0, which isn´t great but went you see it has a clearance of 70% its not terrible, but it really would have needed to pulling a 7.0 to be competitive with the bottom portion and it just wouldn´t have been close even with a fuller market clearance. 

Regarding Van, she had been deemphasized pretty much since Labine and Mayer were writing. I think she was central in the Jeff Hartman story, but after that, Van and Bruce are left to deal with other people´s problems. They get an alcoholic ward, Lynn Henderson, but her story never really seems to find a direction ( I think they wanted to have Lynn go after Ben Harper but that never completely happens). Gabrielle Upton has a plot where Bruce thinks he´s dying and tries to pair Van and Andrew Marriott, but that sounds even more hoary than most of Jean Holloway´s stuff. It is Ann Marcus, actually, who seems to revitalize Bruce and Van by introducing Amy Russell, who claims she is Bruce´s bastard daughter, and Ben´s ex-cell mate Steve Harbach who develops a sexual attraction for Vanessa. Truthfully, it would be a treat to see some of the Steve / Vanessa material. 

The timeslot change is about a month before Ann Marcus arrives. In Marcus' first week, she immediately dumps the notorious Bambi Brewster plot and immediately gives Bruce and Van jobs at the university. By June, Mia Marriott´s brother Wes Osbourne becomes involved with Ray Slater´s kid sister Gina Gaspero for the youth summer story. Marcus´ overhaul definitely has a youth emphasis.

The college definitely seems to be becoming more of an emphasis as does the disco that is run by Arlene and Ray. I think ditching the ski resort element of the show was unfortunate, but it didn´t seem to fit with where the show was heading. 

Given the constant turnover, the question really would be who would have been producer or writer after Abbi/Marcus and what would they have done to the show. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by dc11786
To clarify the Barbara/Diana mistake