Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Franko]

Monday, March 4, 1985. All this, and James Coco shilling for Benihana!

[DRW50]

Thanks. I was going through all the last pages to remember who to tag but forgot yours.

[Franko]

Oh, that's okay. I've subscribed to the channel.

[dc11786]

I appreciated the density in the March 1985 episode. I have seen a bit of episodes from this period and I really think Marland's final months were incredibly strong. Marland always manages to pack a lot into an episode without it seeming overcrowded to me. There was some nice nuance in the scenes involving Gwyn and Dane as I don't think they have become bedfellows yet, but the growing attraction between them is evident. Jim telling Ava that if you love someone you want them happy while Mike comforts Shana in the waiting room. The not so subtly, but nicely done moment with Ann commenting on Gwyn's loneliness while Gwyn stares on at Dane holding Ann. 

I thought the use of "Nothing's Gonna Change My Love For You" worked for both Jack and Stacey as well as Tony and Rita Mae. Tony and Rita Mae has been a hidden gem in the slew of 1985 episodes I have seen. I really enjoy the pairing, but I am not really sure where they would have gone after the initial age difference. I forgot that they had Rita Mae go to AU as part of her new life post Billy. I think this was one of the first stories that was dropped when Marland left. 

The Ava scenes were great. I do find Roya Megnot mesmerizing, if not also a bit over the top at times. I could definitely see them using that line about "I want it all" in a commercial for this week's episodes. I am curious how Patty Lotz, who was more reserved and tomboyish, would have managed this material or if Marland would have gone in a different direction as I don't think the pregnancy plot started until Megnot was in the role for a few weeks. 

I enjoy the clear the build up to Dane takeover Alden Enterprises after spending months of negotiating and manipulating situations. I do think the fall out of this had the potential to be really good, but that would come down to the day to day execution. I think the emotional fallout is potent as Gwyn has sided with Dane, Dane has maneuvered himself into marrying Ann in order to gain her stock, and he still, I believe, is trying to get into good graces with Jack. I wish there was a bit of either Dane / Jack or even Dane / Ava in these scenes as Ava eventually secures the money from Dane to buy Johnny from her sister Sherri and Sherri's husband, Tug Watley. 

Stacey is definitely more effective in this role rather being quickly married off to Jack. I am curious how Marland would have handled Stacey had he continued. In some ways, I feel that he has maneuvered Stacey into the role that was originally envisioned for Merrill by Agnes Nixon, the young woman involved with a married man. Stacey's conflict over her religion (only slightly alluded to by Jim Vochek in his scenes with Ava) worked well. The reference to Stacey and Tony's failed wedding was a reminder of how quickly the show moved. I believe the wedding had only been two months earlier at the start of January and now Tony and Rita Mae are together and Jack and Stacey are in the midst of their (emotional?) affair. 

Hoping to see more from this period at some point. 

[dc11786]

After a million and one jobs, Mike had taken a position at Alden Enterprises in the security offices, I believe. I think it was part of Shana's attempt to mold Mike into the man she wanted him to be. It is an interesting concept since Mike had previously been involved wiht Ann and Ann was involved at AE. I'm not sure if any of these dynamics were handled effectively. At the same time, there was some union issues at the Alden plant and Mike became involved. What we saw was the end of the union meeting with Mike agreeing to help bridge the gap between the workers and the AE elite. It was a bump in the relationship between Mike and Shana before Noreen returns in a few weeks. I don't think these minor characters would have appeared very often as the factory is pretty quickly ignored again. The factory issues may have been incited by Dane in part of his coup to take over AE. I don't think all of those layers really come across in this episode.

I agree that Jack, Stacey, Curtis, and Ava could have gone on forever with characters being weaved into their unit. Ava manipulating Lilly into breaking up with Jack and Stacey while Curtis was also secretly pursuing Lilly while being married to Ava or recently divorced might have been fun as well. 

 

[Kane]

Thanks for the tag!  Hope this trend of '80s episodes seeing the light of day continues.

[NothinButAttitude]

Thank you for the tag @DRW50! This'll give me something to watch later on after I get done studying/reading texts for my new job. 

[DRW50]

I always enjoy reading your breakdowns of the episodes, especially those from rarely covered eras. 

I remember some saying Marland was bad at half-hour soaps, based on his Doctors work, but I agree some we've seen from him have felt well-packed (which is not the case for some other Loving periods, especially a few of the late '80s episodes available). You don't notice repetition of story beats as much. 

I liked that they used Jim in another story grouping as most of the time I've seen him has just been when he is focused on Shana or on his amnesia. The scene with Ava was better than I had expected - the whole thing reminded me of Delia in the early years of Ryan's Hope.

[Manny]

Thanks for the tag as always!! I was out of town for a weekend trip and didn't see it until now, but the episode is gone unfortunately

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[DRW50]

I'm going to wait a while to see if the uploader puts the episode back up. If not I may try it on Archive.

[Forever8]

An episode from 1990 has been uploaded. @dc11786 @DRW50 @Vee @NothinButAttitude and everyone I missed that I didn't tag.

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[DRW50]

Thanks! Nice to see this episode back up again. So many blur together but I couldn't forget how Roya Megnot rocks the Ava looks here, especially the necklace. I wish someone could have asked her while she was still with us if there were any differences in playing Ava at this time compared to her first run.

I enjoy the novelty of Roya returning just to have a makeout scene with a recast Alex.

I actually like this look on Trisha, even if it screams ABC or Noelle Beck saying they want a Julia Roberts. I like the change from her many years of straight hair and more generic outfits.

This Rick is so overly mannered, and for some reason reminds me of Todd McKee. I wonder if they still weren't intending to kill Rick at this time given that he has regular family scenes alongside the drama with Stacey and Jack.

That was a real therapist with Jack and Stacey, wasn't it? 

Elizabeth Savage's Gwyn is somewhat similar to Christine Tudor in look and delivery, but much closer to the brassy broad of old Hollywood, rather than the darkness and brokenness inherent in Tudor's portrayal. Still, I enjoy watching her, and Ilene Kristen.

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by DRW50

[NothinButAttitude]

Thanks, @Forever8 for the tag!

I thought I remembered watching this episode once upon a time. It is good to see it has popped up again as @DRW50 pointed out. 

Question--how long did this man play Alex? I am so used to seeing Randolph Mantooth in the role instead. 

That aside, this episode did personify what was wrong with Loving (and many other soaps) in the 80s. This episode was filled with more recasts than original players. 

It is so odd seeing Anthony Herrera play a character that is more restrained and human than James Stenbeck even though Dane was a social climbing schemer too. 

The Jack/Stacey scenes... meh. As I've stated before, I find them to be annoying together. Stacey seems whiny and weak with Jack; meanwhile, Jack acts like a brute opposite Stacey. I wish more clips of them in other pairings would pop up to truly see how the two were when they weren't together. But that probably wouldn't matter anyways as they probably stayed pining for each other the entire time...

[DRW50]

He only played Alex for a year and a half or so, maybe two. I think he had a Youtube channel for his standup work. I asked once about his being on Loving but there was no response.

I agree about the recast issues, although James Horan is my favorite of the Clays.

Any time I see Dane it feels like his stories were left unfinished and he is just there to move the plot along. I do like seeing Anthony in a role outside of overused James. This is right after James was at his most repulsive (Marland really threw him all the way under the bus at the end) - openly abusive and racist and planning to likely brutally murder Emily - so I appreciate the lower key.

I agree about Jack and Stacey. I know they did have some fans - one fan put up a compilation of many of their scenes that is still around - but they don't do anything for me. Not that it ever would have happened, but I would have enjoyed a secret gay affair storyline with Jack. A passionate feud at Alden Enterprises as Stacey sits at home with their son wondering what has become of her life.

Edited August 27, 2024 by DRW50

[DRW50]

nm, that episode was already on Youtube, just with another date.

Edited September 3, 2024 by DRW50