Members stenbeck212 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 WHAT people? They must be responding to the barely maintained production values, which put GL to shame by comparison. The writing was tolerable with more inclusion of vets during the fall, but the last year was one of enjoying a good episode only occasionally for most of the audience. Good scenes here and there can't sweeten the smell of dung. It's not that the fans don't know they're getting a raw deal. TPTB believe that higher ratings require a production overhaul, and they've slashed budgets already. To "go down" any more would be their cue for cancellation, because they see money as a fix for a creative problem. That's what we're to believe, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quent Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Sorry, but I disagree with just about everyone who has posted. Yes, when Hogan took over, he had a brilliant first year, using the break-up of Hal and Barbara as a springboard to an umbrella story that covered everybody. He gave new life to Martha Byrne, Terri Colombino and especially, Colleen Zenk Pinter. But after that first year, he was a disaster. When I think of Hogan, I think of The Boxing Storyline, Killer Pilar, the Dahlia storyline, Teens On The Run, Celia In An Orange Crate and that horrible Margo/Doc/Jessica triangle. I'll take Jean P any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David V Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Since the mid-90s, P&G's commitment to soaps has been questionable at best. However, the BIG difference between now and previous decades, is that the really bad writers and producers didn't last long because production companies and networks were quit to realise the damage being done. Plus, Daytime wasn't in as bad a state in the 90s as it is now. Now, they're willing to let writers stay on for too long and do more damage. I'll go into a more comprehensive review of GL and ATWT in this period, writer by writer: GUIDING LIGHT We'll start with the post-JFP period. If you take out the horrible decision to kill off Maureen Bauer, the overall body of work produced under JFP at GL was actually pretty good- enough to win an Emmy for the collective writing team in the early 90s that included Broderick, Demorest and Reilly. Phelps was replaced as EP by Michael Laibson, who on 5 years was Another World's second longest-serving producer after Paul Rauch. As it was Laibson didn't last long in the job and was replaced by... Paul Rauch! Megan McTavish- as we all know, she got really lucky with her successful first stint on AMC, because she inherited a show that was already doing well and was working under Felicia Minei Behr. However, her stint on GL saw the show's quality and ratings sink, and predictably she didn't last long. Michael Conforti and Victor B. Miller were not on long enough to make a real "impression" to the best of my knowledge. James Harmon Brown and Barbara Esensten were next, and their run on the show (to 2000) was controversial. There was the astonishing performances of Cynthia Watros as Annie, a truly remarkable actress who richly deserved her Emmy win. There was also the cloning storyline which actually caused a ratings spike, and for a good part of this time, GL was now rating better than AMC and OLTL (courtesy, ironically, of McTavish and Phelps!). They also phased in the introduction of the "Two Ss"- Santos and San Cristobel, which really was the tip of the iceberg. Claire Labine- it's generally acknowledged she could never steer the show in the direction she wanted, because of arguments with Paul Rauch that led to her departure. Lloyd Gold- rounds out the writers of the Rauch era. Millee Taggert and Carolyn Culliton- not sure what to make of their run at this stage. Ellen Weston- as we all know, she presided over the start of what most consider the really terminal decline of the show. An utterly despicable rewriting of history that led to the departure of Peter Simon from the show. David Kreizman- has delivered, it seems, good and bad results throughout his reign, and it seems more bad. AS THE WORLD TURNS Like GL, we'll need a convenient reference point so we'll cover all of the post-Marland period. Juliet Packer and Richard Backus had the task of continuing on Marland's storylines, either finishing them off or starting up those he had planned, likewise with introducing new characters. As has been said elsewhere, execution was hit-and-miss but as long as the people who'd worked with Marland were around the show wasn't going to radically deviate from the vision for the show. Ratings remained pretty solid in this time too. Richard Culliton- showed that he could write a good storyline with the acclaimed John/Lisa storyline giving him an Emmy nomination. A change of EP also took place later in 1995 when Caso was replaced by Valente, who began making less than popular changes, and Culliton left too. Carly was introduced to the show during this time- it's widely thought she was actually planned by Marland before his death. Stephen Black and Henry Stern- as we all know, unspeakably bad with their stupid storylines and pointless new characters. I'll only say that P&G acted far more quickly than they would have these days, in getting rid of EVERYONE responsible for the show falling into a black hole. When Felicia Minei Behr took over, the transitional HW team was put in charge and ratings spiked, but the initial goodwill was lost when the recast of Connor took place and the unprecedented backlash. Jessica Klein- really did little to improve the quality of the show in her five months in charge. Stephen Demorest, Mel Brez and Addie Walsh were the transitional team once more, and this time they managed to do a decent job of improving the show. Lorraine Broderick- a lot of people criticised her tenure, but we can all say that she had a tough task of cleaning up two years' worth of garbage, and didn't do badly at that. Plus, ratings stabilised and even rose during her time. Leah Laiman- isn't known as "Lethal Leah" for nothing. And I'm astonished ATWT would employ her in some capacity AGAIN! Hogan Sheffer- good first year, blah for the rest, which indicates he's only as good as the writers he's working with. Jean Passanante- so far, masterfully replicating the rubbish she did on AMC. So there you have it. Very few of the writers GL or ATWT have had since the mid-90s have left the show in a better state than they found them in. P&G has a lot to answer for, in allowing these once gems of Daytime fall into the toilet by constantly hiring plonkers as writers and producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Punky Brewster Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 When are they up for renewal? I was thinking ATWT is this summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 P&G should try to lure Nancy Curlee back to soap writing and team her and her husband Stephen Demorest (who has history writing for ATWT too) again. If GL still had its core in tact, I'd want her to go there. However, ATWT, unlike GL, still has some of its core left and a lot of veteran players are still under contract. Alas, it will probably never happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stenbeck212 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Of course Hogan was a one-season pony, but you can't possibly think Passanante is better! She simply continued down the path of sensationalism that he paved, only her specialty is character assassination. ALL of this started with the spa. Goutman hasn't reigned in the outlandish plots since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 I agree Sema, Passante's reign of terror we have the men being abusive assholes to the women, and seriously the men(Jack, Holden...) having the kids while they continue to treat Carly & Lily like dog [!@#$%^&*] pisses me off royally... I loved ATWT under Hogan...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sema608 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Passanante's reign of terror.... BTW, I'd take the boxing story over Passanante's entire run any day of the week. Hogan's worst is wayyyyyy better than JP's best. I watched some of his "clunkers" scenes and you know what? I LOVE them NOW. JP's horrid stories make Hogan's "clunkers" look like emmy winning material. Okay, for example....the people on SOC. Posters are actually praising the writing and things. They've been doing this for about a year or so. It's just damn weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 WORD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sema608 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 PunkyBrewster, good question. Is ATWT going to be renewed or is this a package decision with GL? You know, I still can't believe ATWT is intact when it comes to the vets. Other soaps dismantled them and tossed them aside like rotten pancakes. It's really shocking that this is the one thing ATWT accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stenbeck212 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Well, there are some differences in the way they look at things. I think the couple wars are a selling point for them. I've found SON viewers to be more objective and accurate in their assessment of the entire production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David V Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 That's the most amazing thing about it for me. The history of the show is still there, the vets are still there, despite all the horrible writing and production teams the show has had those two things have largely remained and can still be utilised by those who can be bothered to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members juppiter Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 Honestly, I really like Jean Passanante as HW. She may not be the best idea person, but she understands the show. Under Hogan, we lost Oakdale. Passanante has brought back the all-American family show that we had not seen since Lorraine Broderick. She understands that most of ATWT viewers are conservative, simple people. That is why ATWT is so stable in ratings, and that is why she keeps her job. I am so over Goutman, but I think that overall Jean Passanante has been great for the show. ATWT just needs to get a better idea person for co-HW than Leah Laiman. I suggest hiring back Tom Casiello if indeed he is done at DAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 The vets are there, but in sucky storylines and basically supporting everyone else...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sema608 Posted February 16, 2008 Members Share Posted February 16, 2008 TIIC's excuse? At least they're not hookers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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