The Tennis Thread

[JaneAusten]

It's so interesting talking about all this and Seles. I'm not a mega tennis fan but I was a big Seles fan and it was like sacrilege rooting for her and not rooting for Graf.

Seles was so young when she won the French Open - 15 if I remember. The voting the women did in terms of her status after her stabbing disillusioned me over Womens tennis until the Williams sisters came along.  The lack of any kind of solidarity around the violence perpetrated on her particularly from Graf was really IMO a betrayal. 

Seles was incredibly brave and has actually done some real good in talking about her eating disorder. She was not only stabbed, but she lost her dad/coach not long after. 

[DramatistDreamer]

I read her memoir several years ago and remember her talking about her weight gain in the wake of her father's illness and death and how the weight caused her foot injuries.

When Seles was number one and the stabbing happened, I wasn't able to see the match because I was in school at the time and could only see the news footage. It was shocking, like looking at some other sport, some place that I could not recognize. It was only years later, watching that ESPN SportsCentury documentary, that I would learn how the WTA had voted against freezing Seles' ranking in place while she was off the Tour recuperating. It was cold-blooded but the WTA shouldn't have put it to a vote, they should have just done the right thing and automatically froze her ranking like they do nowadays-- they don't give players any say on the matter, they just do it. People are under the impression that WTA is a union, it is not- it has a Player's Council but when there are decisions to be made on tournaments, especially the majors, they usually don't consult the players at all. 

As for Steffi, she should have reacted sooner, but with an abusive father and zealous fanatics that she clearly wanted no part of, Steffi had her share of personal problems too.

Edited February 1, 2022 by DramatistDreamer

[Fevuh]

I have zero clue as to how Steffi remained so beloved.  It was beyond ugly, and it only got worse to me.  This, from me, who disliked Monica at first.  I so wanted Chrissie to make it in her last US Open and that turned into the match that I began to love Seles.  There was a brief moment either when they were walking on or off the court, and the crowd was cheering.  Bud Collins made the comment and it was very easy to miss...Monica went to raise her hand to wave and then stopped, and fixed a piece of hair on her head or pretended to fix her hair.  I saw it and said 'wow' immediately, and Bud caught it and said - did you see that?  Did you catch that...the crowd was cheering and Monica went to wave, and then hid it and fixed her hair.  She knows this is Chris' moment.  That right there is when I became a Monica fan.

Back to the Steffi issue...what really REALLY grated on me is that AFTER the player vote, and Martina Navratilova as President of the WTA having to basically over-ride the player vote, and put Monica as co-#1, and had to make EXCUSES for the players - I remember her saying - they just didn't understand, and after we explained it to them, they were OK with it.   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AFTER EXPLAINING it to them?  It still BURNS me to this day.  AFTER ALL OF THAT (sorry for the Caps) - THEN STEFFI was angry and upset that they also decided to calculate Monica's ranking after 6 tournaments.  The minimum was 12 and Steffi was angry about that and opposed it because she said IT WAS UNFAIR.  You see, she had injured her back.  Um, WHAT? Did ya get STABBED in it???   Again, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And THAT is how I feel about Steffi Graf.  I'm going to say something really nasty.  As crazy as people complained about the Seles fans, the Steffi fans were 100 times worse. There.  So nothing should have shocked me about it.  How on EARTH do you even REASON the inequity. ??  The message boards are still out there.  You really want to be shocked, check them out.  Oh those Germans.  Well ya know, Monica was a drama queen, and it only went 2 CM into her back, it wasn't that big of a deal. 

The overzealous Steffi fans were a nasty bunch.  And well, the Germans have such a lovely human-rights past when it comes down to it.  I'll get off my soap box now.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Fevuh

[I Am A Swede]

I think there should be some clarifying here. Graf did not participate in the vote regarding Seles' ranking being frozen. The WTA held that vote during the tournament in Rome which Graf was absent from.

Later, when Seles did return in 1995, Graf had no problem with sharing the number 1 ranking with Seles, but it's true that she opposed Seles only having to count 6 tournaments opposed to the normal 12. Like all the other players did. So why single Graf out for that? 

Yes, the lunatic that stabbed Seles was a fan of Graf, but she bears no responsiblity for his actions, or the actions/behaviour of any of her fans. 

 

ETA: And I think that attack on the Germans was totally unnecessary and uncalled for. 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by I Am A Swede

[SnCCorinthos4ever]

Wonder how much of this is true in regards to Novax going to get vaxed?

 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/old-firm-derby-live-ange-postecoglous-celtic-face-bitter-enemies-rangers-with-top-spot-on-the-line/news-story/0b52059f4784bdefd08926c7a737c6d0?fbclid=IwAR107OPZEiRuu5i4KRuETMJTfdSzorgBvnsAyDQg8JC4-aJQX1ZTKa9Q9zc

Edited February 2, 2022 by SnCCorinthos4ever

[DramatistDreamer]

Steffi Graf was not beloved until she was retired. I remember during the Italian Open, the Italian press used to refer to her as the "Ugly German girl". The one time that I can remember a "pro Graf" outside of Germany was when she played Martina Hingis at Roland Garros and Hingis upset at a call that had gone against her and, as she argued what she considered to be a bad call, crossed on the other side (her opponent's side) of the net, which is considered a big faux pas. Hingis got booed relentlessly and dissolved into tears and never recovered during the match, which Steffi came back and won. Hingis' coach and mother came on court after the match (something that would never be allowed today) to console Martina, and help Hingis collect herself for the trophy ceremony. That's the one time when I can remember a solidly pro-Graf crowd outside of Germany. 

No Steffi didn't handle things the best in the wake of Seles' attack, but neither did anyone else, the courts handling the criminal case especially. Steffi may also have been preoccupied by the tax evasion case that looked over her. Though her father handled her finances, any discrepancies were Steffi's responsibility and from what I remember, she faced the possibility of actual jail time (which didn't happen).

Sabatini may have been less accomplished than Graf but she was more popular. I remember cheering Gabriela throughout her U.S. Open final against Graf and was elated when she took the championship match and I actually enjoy watching Graf. But Gaby was known then as the "Princess Of The Pompador".

[Soapsuds]

I floved Sabitini and loved her matches against Graff. It didn't hurt that she was beautiful too. I loved her game too.

[Soapsuds]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tennis-highest-ranking-umpire-soeren-112424220.html

[Soapsuds]

Nadal comeback is most-watched Australian Open men’s final in five years

Last Saturday’s Australian Open men’s final (Rafael Nadal-Daniil Medvedev) averaged a 0.44 rating and 690,000 viewers on ESPN, up 63% in ratings and 56% in viewership from last year (Novak Djokovic-Medvedev: 0.27, 441K) and the most-watched men’s final at the tournament since Nadal’s 2017 loss to Roger Federer (1.1M).

The previous night’s women’s final (Ashleigh Barty-Danielle Collins) posted a 0.32 and 482,000, up 7% and 1% respectively from last year (Naomi Osaka-Jennifer Brady: 0.30, 478K).

The full tournament averaged a 0.22 and 357,000, up 22% and 31% respectively from last year, when the tournament took place several weeks later than usual (0.18, 273K). Keep in mind that the linear ESPN networks aired far fewer overnight hours than in previous years.

[Fevuh]

Well, I did say be forewarned and that it would be nasty.  And I did not say anything about Steffi voting for or against Monica's ranking.  And she would be singled out because of what I said.  She was against the 6 vs. 12 game calculation of ranking because she had a BAD BACK.  It was no secret and was kind of ironic given the situation.  That THAT would be her main reason for being out of commission and her reason for the side of the fence she chose to be on.

What was very funny - I know someone that spoke to Martina about the situation way back when.  Ancillary person who happened to pass it on to me.  When Martina addressed the players' concerns, here's how it went down.  You're not going to keep Monica out of a tournament, so what exactly are you all thinking?  Where are your heads?  Because if she's NOT ranked at all - by the nature of how this works - you're going to MEET her in a very early round or even the FIRST round.  Even if she qualifies to get in, you're going to end up meeting her EARLY.  And that goes for the very highest ranked players as well.  So what is your goal here?  To NOT get paid for advancing?  You're not thinking here.

THAT was the explanation to the players.  THAT'S why they were suddenly OK with it.  Honestly I was surprised when I heard this.  I would have thought they were smart.  Apparently not.

And, I'm part Jewish, part Irish (strange combination).  So when it comes to my opinions on certain things, not apologizing for that.

[I Am A Swede]

^^

Let me start by saying that on the overriding issue I don't think our opinions differ. The WTA handled the situation with Seles' stabbing atrociously. They should have simply said to the other players that until Seles returned her ranking would be frozen, and when she returned it would stay that way for a year. No discussion.

What I reacted to was the way it felt like you put more responsibility on Graf than on the other players for how things went down. Maybe I read more into what you said than you intended, and if that is the case then I'm sorry. That's why I brought up that Graf was the only top player who didn't participate in the vote about Seles' ranking. Singling out her response from the rest of the players feels a little like placing a tiny bit of blame on her for what happened to Seles, since it was one of her "fans" who committed the stabbing.

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

Hopefully JMDP can live a good quality of life with little to no pain as part of it. It's always sad to me when players are unable to conclude their careers on their own terms, when they want to conclude it.

[DramatistDreamer]

Tuesday will be time for tears.

[ChitHappens]

I'm heartbroken for him

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[DramatistDreamer]

Is anyone surprised that Peng Shia has apparently announced her retirement? I could have guessed this would be coming soon.