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I guess torture porn is still a big hit? I know 24 was all about the torture porn. I watched this tonight - or parts, anyway - and it was about 50% torture porn.

If it works, then good for them, I guess, but I can't say I want to see it.

Sam and Dean are dead zones in their scenes together. Actually Sam is like that with everyone. Nothing going on.

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I thought most of Buffy was a mess after high school, with too much focus on "arc" storytelling even when Whedon was incapable of making those arcs work, and when most of the actors gave up (the actors having such screen presence was what made the show pop in the first place - after season 3, the only one who cared was Allyson Hanigan).

I feel that the cohesiveness of the show stayed until season 4. But during the middle seasons and beyond it dried up and died. After that the show became a character study about Buffy and her friends, which I was fine with as I think Buffy is probably one of the best heroines in television history.

Supernatural feels empty to me but I put that on the questionable decision to kill off most of the supporting cast and rehash too many Sam/Dean stories. I think the pieces are still there.

I just feel in general Buffy/Angel was much more effective at saying what they wanted to say in terms of theme and also wring more out of one in terms of emotional impact, even if they drifted away from their premises they were still emotionally resonant, while Supernatural just remains an empty husk. Supernatural is about family, love and tragedy and now all there is, is despair. Sam and Dean don't have anything together anymore, which is basically the reason for the show and the entire existence for it. The show isn't about Castiel, Benny or other people. It's about two brothers, hunting things, avenging their fallen family members and trying to heal -- but you don't get that any more, from either brother.

To me there's just so much you can do with Castiel if you have proper, structured writing. Misha Collins is a great actor, he has first rate chemistry with Jensen Ackles, he has great chemistry with Rachel Miner (Meg), he had a potentially interesting relationship with Sam, and there's so much about him we don't know. There's Jimmy Novak, which is more untapped stories. But his stories mostly became about screwing up and Dean having to fix it, what does he do for Dean's life, etc.

I agree on Jimmy Novak, but Castiel is a dead end character and always has been, that was the problem with the angel arc in general. They weren't meant to exist on this show continuously in this way and it undercuts pretty much the genesis of the story that they do. There is no reason for Sam and Dean to hunt if they just have a super powered angel to bail them out every time. What is the purpose of them, then? Castiel always had an expiration date and the show has basically destroyed itself in trying to escape this fact and compensate him because of fan demand. There is a similar problem with Benny too, who is basically just a different version of Lenore a previously liked character from season 2/3. As to Castiel's relationship with Sam and Meg those seem pretty non-existent for the most part aside from a few brief scenes here and there. They never really had any kind of relationship. Castiel used Sam to hurt Dean, because Sam is just Dean's appendage and Castiel's brief scenes with Meg were mostly devolved into jokes and sexual tension that kind of led nowhere.

Castiel is centric around Dean and exists solely to be his buddy. He doesn't feel like a real character and he never has. He's not human. He's an angel who isn't supposed to have human feelings or a real human identity. He shouldn't even still be on earth actually.

I feel like the show has moved away from a lot of this (he hasn't been with anyone since a one night stand last season, I believe). They concentrate too much on "why did Dean let Sam down/will Sam accept Dean again" and all the usual, but I think Dean has interesting routes to go if they go further into the PTSD, and his relationships with Cas and Benny (although I assume Benny and/or Cas will just betray him and then we'll get more man pain).

The PTSD is the same story the brothers have had for years now though, it's nothing new. No new material to be found in either case as the show doesn't wish to get too emotional with their leads outside of one off speeches. Dean has had this storyline in particular before. He had PTSD in season four for being in hell for 40 years, Sam had PTSD for being in a cage with Lucifer for 180 years in season 6. It's all recycled ideas. It's the same formula, "something is wrong with Sam, but it all happens off screen", "watch while the good son Dean suffers silently on the inside and cries man tears for the 12,000 time!"

As to the show moving away from key characterizations of Dean there are still far too many jokes about Dean objectifying women's bodies, watching animated porn and in general make sexist jokes for there to be real character progression. Ultimately the problem with Dean is that his overall persona is unlikable, even if the actions and choices that he makes are supposed to be seen as both noble and self sacrificing.

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I think Dean and how he actually is with women and the persona he creates tend to be very different - you could see that with Charlie in the last episode. He never objectified her, or her lesbianism. The episode was actually one of the most mature portrayals of lesbianism I've seen on a show in a while, at least in this genre. I like that side of Dean, and the goofy side. I don't have as much interest (I have none actually!) in seeing him angst over Sam.

Anyway, their grandfather, on their father's side, will be on tonight. You might be interested. It's supposed to be a new myth element outside of the angels/demons.

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So there was another, presumably unintentional (? I have no idea) implication of Dean being bisexual in last night's episode.

The sad thing is, I assume this stuff is unintentional, and I assume it will never be addressed onscreen, and yet...it's still better and more affirming than most stories I've seen for bisexual men on TV.

I don't know what that says.

Edited by CarlD2

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Eight seasons, sporadic appearances, writing that was all over the place, but always one of the bright spots of the show - RIP to Meg. At least she went out on her terms. I'd rather see her than Crowley but whatever.

Edited by CarlD2

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I think I know the answer, but is anyone else here watching this show?

It's probably the most uneven show on TV, but I actually did enjoy last night's episode quite a bit.

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I just had to drop it --- too many episodes were piling up and really I had lost interest or even traction of major story arcs a long time back (probably when the first showrunner left.) I still enjoy a lot of the characters' chemistry, and there still have been strong individual episodes, but it is just a show that's past its sell by date for me (if I were less busy with grad studies and work this year I might try to find the time, but...)

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Kripke? I think he was a hack, mostly. The only two seasons I think he did well were the first two, and then the fourth. I'm also thrown by his homophobia, which I'd forgotten about. He had his moments, and I'd like to believe he didn't realize how homophobic some of the content was, and he had a good eye for casting. Unfortunately his same problems seem to have followed him to Revolution, only with a very weak cast, outside of Giancarlo Esposito.

I mostly got back into the show last season because of some of the actors and the occasional good episode, and the show has so many possibilities (which are rarely exploited). There have been a few good episodes this season but since you're busy I can see why you wouldn't want to watch.

If you do ever watch you should try Everybody Hates Hitler.

Edited by DRW50

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