EricMontreal22

I'd actually like to hear your thoughts on it, Vee. As I've made clear, I think it's awful but in a sorta mesmerizing, brilliant way--but obviously that's not the intention, and I don't mean to belittle those on here who love it, or who have said it's a true return to vintage Y&R style daytime soap (poor Bill Bell....)

Nah, I think the Walkers are faily God-less. (Everything-less.)

Ah, so ghost Reva is the storyline soap books call "astral projection Reva?"

That scene was interesting and Schneider tried his hardest to make it work--it had potential--but it had a number of WTF lines (mainly from Kathryn.) I mean even the whole lipstick on the underwear thing would make sense, except the sorta "clever" bitchy lines Perry wrote for it were WTF crazy (at least for me.) And the direction with a prolonged beat between every "quick" comeback didn't help. Wonder if he will feel guilty when inevitably it turns out Kathryn has whatever illness Hannah had and recognized in Kathryn.

Progress was the wrong word, but I can't think of a better one lol (still, it's not like early Christianity--or even later--was not without its even more hypocritical sacrificial lambs and violence.)

Vanguardian, have you been watching or just reading recaps? Because I have only seen one episode of Generations--years ago--but the dialogue must be ATROCIOUS if this has better writing. I do have to wonder about Perry--so he really honestly does write and direct everything he claims to? Talk about being overworked. I have no idea why he wouldn't just take the money and credit and hire decent staff writers--though his dialogue is so over the top bizarre and random I expect he does think it's clever. Frequentsoap--people seem to feel differently about this show, some genuinely seem to love it, some think it's unwatchable. For me it is--so far anyway--a show that's so completely awful it's good. It's genuine camp (genuine because I really believe Perry feels he's telling some deep human truths here.) I admit, while it feels more like a daily soap, if it was a daily soap I'd probably get bored with it quickly or only watch every so often--but as a weekly show it's fun enough to tune in for. I suspect that soon (Wiki has 6 episode details up) it will have some really over the top Perry moment to liven things up.

BTW some lighting guy who works with Perry, apparently, wrote this open letter to him about the lighting--I did notice that even on my slightly too bright tv, the black actorsrs often faded into the shadows. I love moody dark soap lighting, but I agree this could be done better. Dear Mr. Perry, You may remember I have worked with you on "Why Did I Get Married", "Why Did I Get Married Too?", "For Colored Girls", "Good Deeds" and "House of Payne: Heartbeat". For "Haves" may I suggest bringing up the lighting values? Overall, it is too dark. Many of the scenes had such bad shadows that we could not see the eyes of the talent. I was watching it at a friend's house on a Sony 50" LCD HDTV via AT&T Uverse so I know there were issues with the show's production values. As you know, sometimes HD television is just too sharp. May I also suggest you take some of the edge off by using a bit of diffusion to give the show a touch of fantasy? (Just not as much as they use on NCIS! LOL) Thank you. Terry Thomas Atlanta, Georgia USA › Director of Photography › Cinematographer › Character Actor › Stills / Specials Photographer

Found and watched episode 3. I still find it hypnotically compelling--and very much like watching Passions (with much darker lighting...) back when it started. But not very good. The dialogue really does have to go--so many WTF lines (the underwear on the ground line springs to mind--or simply all the times people will say something like, in reply, "Maybe". LONG beat then the other person says "What do you mean by 'maybe'?" LONG beat. "Well..." etc) The scene in the office between the men (including the ridiculous actor who played the detective) was like pulling teeth, and had me in stitches it was almost brilliant for how drawn out it was. Or the scene with Hannah and hot druggie guy, where he was trying to get her to buy drugs and kept changing his tone abruptly. I paraphrase "I like to be up early as it's the only time I can be alone" (said sweetly.) Suddenly angry: "I WANT BREAKFAST!" Sweetly: "My back is killing me..." Seriously, if I were Hannah I would think he was on drugs at the time. And Amanda is just a trip, period. I'm surprised she managed even a year in law school. And Katherine! Bizarre lines and bizarre line readings. I looked up the actress and her most major pro experience was as an understudy for Mrs Potts in Beauty and the Beast on tour, and understudy Mrs Morrible in Wicked on tour--makes sense, she seems to play this role as a bizarre mix of the two. Lovely singing voice though--I wonder if we'll get a gospel number from her? The whole show is like watching a bizarre bunch of aliens (which was true of Passions too but I quickly got bored of watching that show on a daily basis.) I also love how in every episode people complain about how Jeffrey isn't beside underwear model apparently on heroin though not remotely looking it--not even having melodramatic shakes or dark circles around his eyes--and then they quickly send one or the other away to talk to him by himself leaving the other alone. I seriously don't think Tyler is in on the joke--but some of the better actors are. Schneider and especially Sumpter (who manages to give SOME energy to her scenes despite the direction) seem to be, anyway. Is this set for 10 episodes? How far in story can they get? It really is paced like a *slow* daytime soap, not a weekly show. Anyone who feels that the pace is too slow on the online soaps now that they're just an hour a week, really needs to watch this. Brilliant. The spoilers through episode 6 on the wiki page promise tons of excitement ahead.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Haves_And_The_Have_Nots_(TV_series)#Cast_and_characters

That's a pretty good 2nd week, isn't it? I was looking at the imdb forum for this show, and while there's a ton of people who hate it, I had forgotten just how much of Tyler Perry's audience seems to automatically watch and love everything he does. He really does have a built in audience (and, my feelings on the show aside, I know a number of people on here who like it are not usual Perry fans, so was not trying to imply that.)

Oh, I can agree with that--that's not what I meant. Part of it is simply overtaking the old ways and sorta progress, I think (if that makes sense.)

Agreed re your last comment. As for Dany, she still is seperate and not personally connected (except through lineage) to all the complex politics between the Westeros crew.

I always forget to read these--but thanks for the heads up. That's probably literally when I started taping the show daily right after Xmas break--I had watched closely for a good 7 months before, especially with Natalie in the well, but would only catch half episodes when I'd rush home on my lunch break from grade 6--never thought to tape it... I guess they're working up to the Will storyline--interesting to see Megan McTavish, Hal Corleyand Richard Culliton as associate head writers.

This is a big part of my problem too. THe chracters still feel very much like character types--which is why it almost feels like a parody of soap archetypes to me. Yeah, soaps often work on archetypes and often their basic motivations are spelled out earlyon, but Perry is excessively lazy about it. They really do need some more settings--I felt like the PP soaps felt clausterphobic or current DAYS, but so far after three episodes, the poor maid's house and then endless similar looking rooms in the mansion get old. But maybe my thoughts will change after the third episode--I still can't find a torrent. I hope whoever (sorry "tyler Perry") is directing stops that odd disembodied head technique.

I only finally clued in that the reason the one maid reminded me so much of Pilar on Passions... is it's the same actress.

I admit, despite all my bitching I find this show oddly hypnotic--like early Passions... I haven't seen episode three because torrents aren't up yet (it just aired didn't it? Vanguardian you prob will hear more discussion later...) What killed me direction wise in episode two especially was all the two-header scenes where we'd get a close up of one person talking right into the camera, then an awkward beat, then a close up of the other person replying, another awkward beat, etc. I dunno if this is typical of Perry (I still don't buy he's writing and directing everything that he's credited as doing) or not...

They are that. I also think they're decent TV actors--meaning I'm not sure I could see thm in many roles, but for these roles, for myself, they work. (Dany's actress got some good noticies this spring in Breakfast at Tiffany's on Broadway, though she got some negative ones aswell and the show itself was almost universally disliked.) And Ann, that's obvioously a very good point about Edmure, and one I didn't even think of.

Would he even make it through the night? The whole group as being destroyed. (I honesty can't remember if he's in the books later, so that' not a spoiler.) You;'re right about the songs and Blackfish, of course. In terms of Blackfish--it just seemed odd to add him there, but your explanation makessense. I guess it took him a long time to find an approprite pee-tree....

I think it's been more than clear too, but I had read some of the books before the series started. But one thing, as has been pointed out, Jon and Dany re the two sorta on either end of the outside--seemingly fighting for a greatergod han all the in-wars and back and forth fighting between the Westeros groups. Ironic that so many critics think both fo these actors are the worst in the show (something I don't really agree with, I think they are both more than fine for their roles.)

Agreed. I think also, while at this point in the show fans should know nobody is safe, I think it did seem like Robb was safe, at least for a while yet, Cat perhaps more s, etc--so I agree with CHeap, that it seems more shocking (Peple also have had more time invested in Robb, even if Ned wasprobably the more dynamic character.)

WHile I do think Thrones' has a few gender issues, I wouldn't go that far in this case--I would chalk it up to other things, like we had already seen in previous seasons his young wife and daughters but nothing of sons, etc. I also think Cat's motivation was deeper than revenge--or more complex, as the actrress says in her interview. .

They didn't. Most of the changes so far, if not all, have made sense to me (even if I don't always agree with it, I can see *why* it was done) but I can't really here. Unless it was because now that Robb's wife is killed as well it seemed more even handed? The show also (IIRC) makes it seem like he has no sons. I thought it made sense to still have the Dany and other stories--and added to the shock of the ending, but I do see Sunspear's point that in the book it's more about this slow, awful sense of dread (although since Robb is not one of the point of view characters in the book it's a bit less of a surprise when he's killed--at least for me, something true of some other deaths like Renly's earlier on--on the show since you don't just see the action from a few characters perspectives it seems more surprising.) Back to Dany, has anyone on here commented on how different Daario as played by Ed Skrein is from, at least how I saw him in the books? A flamboyant blue beard is now much more of a romance novel cover model--which is fine, I still find him both attractive and weirdly creepy, but considering reaction from fans about other changes, I don't think I've heard any complaining here.

Even though I had read the book a while back, I've somehow managed to stay away from episode discussion and spoilers (though I had to be careful on facebook) until I could watch it tonight, so I apologize if I missed any discussion of this in the thread: Cat's uncle wasn't at the wedding in the book, was he? (I don't remember.) It seemed odd making a point of him leaving to go pee--was he killed? Was he aware what was happening? I understand why the scene is one that has divided people so strongly, as I think it did in the book too (though I found it even harder to *watch* it--and I had to double check that Robb's wife wasn't at the wedding in the book--I remember being sure she'd pop back up again in the series, though now I'm more doubtful though obviously the series will diverge more and more from future books--seeing her stabbed in the stomach was gut-wrenching.) Still, I found it very well done, even if I wish a few details had been detailed more--as mentioned, the eating of the bread and salt, or the fact about what the music being played was although I'm sure a lot of people got that, many probably also didn't. I do get the reaction that Quartermaine here posted though--it does seem almost too cruel to have Arya so close on top of everything else and I get why that may give some viewers a sense that things really are hopeless--and I wish she had been able to save Robb's direwolf, that seems like ONE crumb they coulda thrown to fans (the tv series actually seemed to have kinda forgotten about the direwolves for a while--I can't remember if the book was similar.) I'm willing to go with it, and sorta expect that from the show, but, I can see the reverse POV. OK, despite myself, and the fact I usually don' really care for memes, this really made me laugh:

If Perr is indeed directing all of the episode, he is as poor ashis repuation for direction says. There's this really weird and disconcerting stylistic thing he does in th show with having characters close up fill the tv frame and talk directly into the camera, while looking just out of the frame--yes the close up into the camera is a soap cliche, but something about how it's used in this show feels odd to me. That is all

Torrents are the only real way I believe. They are insanely easy to use once you know how, but they seem complex and I know that scares off some people. http://www.wikihow.com/Download-Torrents

This thread goes allwonky when I open it on my browser. Maybe Tyler Perry has cursed me