EricMontreal22

Agreed. I think also, while at this point in the show fans should know nobody is safe, I think it did seem like Robb was safe, at least for a while yet, Cat perhaps more s, etc--so I agree with CHeap, that it seems more shocking (Peple also have had more time invested in Robb, even if Ned wasprobably the more dynamic character.)

WHile I do think Thrones' has a few gender issues, I wouldn't go that far in this case--I would chalk it up to other things, like we had already seen in previous seasons his young wife and daughters but nothing of sons, etc. I also think Cat's motivation was deeper than revenge--or more complex, as the actrress says in her interview. .

They didn't. Most of the changes so far, if not all, have made sense to me (even if I don't always agree with it, I can see *why* it was done) but I can't really here. Unless it was because now that Robb's wife is killed as well it seemed more even handed? The show also (IIRC) makes it seem like he has no sons. I thought it made sense to still have the Dany and other stories--and added to the shock of the ending, but I do see Sunspear's point that in the book it's more about this slow, awful sense of dread (although since Robb is not one of the point of view characters in the book it's a bit less of a surprise when he's killed--at least for me, something true of some other deaths like Renly's earlier on--on the show since you don't just see the action from a few characters perspectives it seems more surprising.) Back to Dany, has anyone on here commented on how different Daario as played by Ed Skrein is from, at least how I saw him in the books? A flamboyant blue beard is now much more of a romance novel cover model--which is fine, I still find him both attractive and weirdly creepy, but considering reaction from fans about other changes, I don't think I've heard any complaining here.

Even though I had read the book a while back, I've somehow managed to stay away from episode discussion and spoilers (though I had to be careful on facebook) until I could watch it tonight, so I apologize if I missed any discussion of this in the thread: Cat's uncle wasn't at the wedding in the book, was he? (I don't remember.) It seemed odd making a point of him leaving to go pee--was he killed? Was he aware what was happening? I understand why the scene is one that has divided people so strongly, as I think it did in the book too (though I found it even harder to *watch* it--and I had to double check that Robb's wife wasn't at the wedding in the book--I remember being sure she'd pop back up again in the series, though now I'm more doubtful though obviously the series will diverge more and more from future books--seeing her stabbed in the stomach was gut-wrenching.) Still, I found it very well done, even if I wish a few details had been detailed more--as mentioned, the eating of the bread and salt, or the fact about what the music being played was although I'm sure a lot of people got that, many probably also didn't. I do get the reaction that Quartermaine here posted though--it does seem almost too cruel to have Arya so close on top of everything else and I get why that may give some viewers a sense that things really are hopeless--and I wish she had been able to save Robb's direwolf, that seems like ONE crumb they coulda thrown to fans (the tv series actually seemed to have kinda forgotten about the direwolves for a while--I can't remember if the book was similar.) I'm willing to go with it, and sorta expect that from the show, but, I can see the reverse POV. OK, despite myself, and the fact I usually don' really care for memes, this really made me laugh:

If Perr is indeed directing all of the episode, he is as poor ashis repuation for direction says. There's this really weird and disconcerting stylistic thing he does in th show with having characters close up fill the tv frame and talk directly into the camera, while looking just out of the frame--yes the close up into the camera is a soap cliche, but something about how it's used in this show feels odd to me. That is all

Torrents are the only real way I believe. They are insanely easy to use once you know how, but they seem complex and I know that scares off some people. http://www.wikihow.com/Download-Torrents

This thread goes allwonky when I open it on my browser. Maybe Tyler Perry has cursed me

I guess if Perry remains headwriter (and EP and director--apparently--I still don't buy that he does all of this for all of his projects on his own ) that won't happen, though. Yes it does have the basic soap tropes--although I hink it owes more to a cheap version of a primetime soap than vintage daytime--setup aside--myself. But in that respect I suppose it is more standard soap than the PP shows maybe (I do agree with you that the PP shows haven't decided what they are, either.) That said, I think current AMC and even OLTL resemble 70s Agnes Nixon soaps more than Haves and Have Not do, but yes it uses a variation of the Irna Phillips/Bell setup (which Nixon did too.)

Why? To all your comments actually

I have a feeling he'll turn into a gay predator--maybe he'll enable the guy he's hired to help, and get him to drink evn more than he is? But who knows... Ijust have this feeling that Perry's sucking people in with all the trashy camp, and then down the line he'll whack them all over the head for being sinners.

I agree with all of this, down to the fact OWN probably could ahave used OLTL and AMC since they're so desperate for programming and even a tiny profit. Perry always compares his comedies and melodramas both to classy examples, so it's no big surprise they wouldn't just call it a soap. It does have the addition of Perry's very strange and extreme world view, but you're pretty much right about what it is.

The pilot is all over the torent sites-in HD and regular--, that's how I managed to see it. For whatever reason te people who uploaded the torrents didn't upload episode two, though. *edit* I just checked and episode 2 is up as well. I think it already shows many of the qualitis of Perry's melodramas I find so oddly fascinating and awful, but the extreme moralizing hasn't happened yet--but I have no doubt itwill. But I can see why some would enjoy the trashiness. It's strange, for a show that seems to think it's so moral, it actually feels incredibly sleazy to me I guess because it does see things in such extreme colours (no pun intended.) I doubt even early Love of Life was so much about good haracters vs wicked/bad. And like a lot of extreme religious based content it wants to have it both ways--the show revels in the sex, sleaze and skin but the viewer can feel superior to all that, while getting off on it, due to the "good" charactes you identify and are preached to by. Anyway, obviously I'm putting way too much thought into this--and that's why it is such instant camp, because unlike, say, Sunset Beach or a telenovela, I seriously think TylerPerry doesn't realize it's camp and really thinks he's helping people with his storytelling (I guess Oprah does too.) Oh, the guys are hot, too. And I laughed outloud that the son secretly drinks from a huge ass crystal decanter--I mean treating it like a mikey. LOL Maybe when I watch the next episode that's how I should drink too.

I loved it too--but in a very guilty pleasure way and so much of the fancy stuff looked cheap (like the green screen boat stuff in the opening episode.) Maybe OWN shoulda picked up the ABC soaps when people asked Oprah if those were the numbers they needed for record highs...

Ah I loved how cheap Ringer looked. LOL

Because this is the way Perry writes women. Witness Tyler Perry's Temptation.

I believe you;'re right--that was all around the time I started watching--but maybe he exited with Galen?

This hasn't aired on Canadian OWN for some reason, so I can't comment, and it sounds like several people here who don't usually like Perry's stuff are enjoying this so far--though I can't help but think the moralizing will come soon just like it does with all of his melodramas--but is Perry credited as director and writer on every episode as Wiki says? Does he really write and direct so much of his work and not just have a factory of writers hiding under his name the way, say, the "authors" of The Hardy Boys or Sweet Valley High had?

With a very oddly coiffed patch of pubes judging by that bottom pic (that is NOT a treasure trail...) This is kinda old, but I caught a tiny bit of a late night rerun of the shortlived Canadian show Being Erica (I think SoapNet carried it for some reason for a bit) and Andrew Jackson, who was Dr Stephen Hammill on AMC was on it--he's aged pretty well. (Dr Stephen was with Gloria for a while--but never had major story that I remember.) I guess it makes sense, since he's a Canuck actor and apparently moved back here.

AH I only watched This Life a year or two back (loved it--hated the reunion movie) but knew I recognized him. I dunno, they all, including Dario who had a weird way of never being able not to sorthalf smile while talking, kinda creeped me out. In an attractive way, I guess.

Definitely two of my favorites--actor and character wise. I feel foolish for not recognizing her, off the bat (then again, I didn't recognize the red-head from Downton Abbey either.)

OMG. I knew Gendry was from Skins of course (the actor I mean,) but somehow couldn't place where Gilly was from.

You're right the Blackwater episode was very strong. I'm confused--sophomore is an AMerican term but wouldn't it mean the second season? (ie Clash?) I can't speak for the Newsroom writers--all I could hear from that show was Sorkin's voice, and I admit I'm simply not a fan, but I do see your point.

The showrunners script an awful lot of the episodes themselves. I wonder if that's a mistake. By no means would I drop them--from all I've read and mostly what I've seen they managed to make this viable in a way nobody else could figure out, but I wouldn't mind having a more varried staff. But that does not excuse Martin's own obligatory e one episode a season which always seem to have great highs and awful lows (dialogue wise, anyway) even though eh apparently starts writing them--or did the past two seasons--a year in advance.

Thanks! I couldn't remember if she had lines--it's fair then that someone who had no idea who she was wouldn't remember. Meh lots of Martin "fans" have lost respect with him for more ridiculous reasons. I didn't mean to sound so harsh with you--although I will say a lot of hardcore fans (more hardcore than myself) have accepted and even prefered a couple of the changes. In your post, you didn't give ANY reason for why the changes were "garbage" except that they weren't in the book. That's it. That's the worst kind of argument when arguing an adaptation, IMHO. Lazy, and makes someone come off as being simply unable to let go of the book (and dare I say, trying to feel special for being fan before they went "mainstream"--although when I started reading them about fiftee years back they really were about as big a hit in mainstream culture as thick histocial fantasy ever could be.) I am no placing you int hat category, but I did find it easy to dismiss your argument as simply bitter fan reaction simply because you gave no reason as to WHY it didn't work for you. Yes, showing us only the post reaction for that scenes was a poor choice. The torture scene was as gratuitous as anything I've seen in the show (the scene in this episode--not in the previous.) Oh and had awful dialogue from Martin. I agree the dialogue has been subpar all season, I think the overall storytelling for a very complex part of the series has been strong enough to overcome that, but I agree.

No, it was Little Finger--Sansa realized (or thought anyway) she missed one of her only chances of escape. Loras is still around I assume, both from the books and the fact that in the TV show his role seems to be amalgamated with those of his, in the show so far, unseen (or mentioned?) brothers so is needed. I had a complaint with some of the writing of this episode. I thought the Loras and Sansa scene talking about the wedding (I think it was this episode--I watched four all together, I was so behind, so they're a bit of a blur--was poorly written or directed. Loras not even being able to really fake much interest except when talking about pretty dresses seemed out of character for someone who I've always seen as pretty clever in his own way, and a bit too obvious some sort of gay stereotype or joke (I mean I'm pretty gay, but in a situation like that I could damn try harder.) Of course the show so far has been far more explicit when it comes to gay stuff than the books (even if there hasn't been much)--from the fact that Renly and Loras relationship was much more suggested in the books, onwards (some of this is due, no doubt, to the fact that in the books neither character is given a role as narrator, so it makes sense that those characters who do narrate wouldn't know the details.) Of course they also changed the way people discovered about Loras and Sansa's engagement by using that gay prostitute in the TV series (I sthink in the books it was a spy who befriended Sansa and she told.)