Vee

Didn't Labine bring on Noah? I remember switching it on after hearing about the writing change, seeing Zimmer (who was already on my last nerve in those days due to the Rauch Queen of Love era) once again shacked up with this beefcake (Mark Dobies) who looked too young like the total cliche soap boytoy* and thinking 'no.' I think Labine even tried to write him up, like he was a Jon Lindstrom or even John J. York capable of carrying more colorful or nuanced character material, and just no. (* - in fairness, Dobies later did quite good work on OLTL in an utterly thankless role that went through many bizarre changes.)

Rewatching some classic Mystery Science Theater 3000 and I'd forgotten they threaded early '60s episodes of GH into several of their shows whenever a movie would run short. The stuff with Jessie and Phil really is amusingly dour and grim and makes good joke fodder. I wouldn't hate it if they did it again with very old soaps, but I imagine the rights situation is far trickier today.

Robert Hays! Good lord, there's an image.

For anyone left alive who cares: I stumbled upon a scene in some perusing last night from summer '87 on OLTL where Ed Hall, having recently returned to town, has a chat with Asa and Viki about his coming back from Arizona and makes it clear he and Carla tried reuniting again but couldn't work it out. He seems eager to find something to do career-wise. I don't know if that's the last real mention of Carla's status on the show as I don't know how or when Ed left again, or what he even ended up doing after this. Input welcome! I think Erika was simply wrong. She loved JFP's run (which I can understand, given the major frontburner material she was given) and has made it clear she disliked Gottlieb personally and professionally. She's more than entitled to that take and while it's clear Gottlieb was not always a people-pleaser, in terms of the show's quality I simply disagree.

I still don't understand why it didn't work better. Either Labine was just past it or Rauch/CBS/P&G was interfering, or some mix. GL would seem an ideal fit for Labine, but she inherited an incredibly tacky, garish iteration of the show. I thought May was definitely supposed to be Stacey.

I never knew that. That would've been something but I suspect they would've squandered him too - the role didn't work.

@dc11786 thanks for the wonderful analysis, as always. I've seen bits and pieces of the Halifax thing but the one thing I always remember is Randolph Mantooth's many interviews in prose and on video talking about how he could not flee GH fast enough to return to Loving.

Who cares?

Oh, how awful. I had no idea he was struggling with that. Poor Lynn.

I will always be grateful to Ron and Frank for bringing back many of these vets and especially Lucy. But after the early material for Lucy it all became so careless and halfassed. I'm not exactly thrilled re: Lucy's romantic options today but she and the other vets are actually more substantial in their roles on canvas today than they were ten years ago (particularly Mac, Kevin and Felicia). The Jax/Brenda instant engagement was the same cheap trick as Ron inexplicably having Laura and Scott return engaged again and marry again in that horrific courthouse quickie wedding where Laura looked like she was facing a firing squad in that white tablecloth 'dress'. Just no reason to do any of that so quickly and so briefly (or do at all, to be clear) but Plot Plot Plot, it made zero sense for any of the characters and ultimately Tony wouldn't even let them do LNL which was clearly the plan and we ended up never seeing Laura and Scott as married people before it was over. I remember thinking for many years back in the early-mid 2000s that Tony and Finola would be hot together. By the time they went there (under a very poorly-written quickie pairing in '12) I was very wrong.

The problem is, per SN's own comments, they clearly intended to just use him as another vet shoved onto recurring to show up every 3-4 weeks and play some unremarkable romantic foibles with Laura or Bobbie in the background of the canvas. That was how Ron and Frank told a lot of veteran story (and how Frank still does with some, though actually somewhat more committed). It would've been unworthy of both Nichols and Genie. In those days Bobbie, Scott, Lucy and Kevin were around, yes, but they played a paper-thin subplot about them all swapping partners that would only appear every few weeks. And then there was the Duke/Lucy(!!) romance where we checked in one day after weeks and suddenly they were officially involved and having breakfast together. I doubt they would've brought Stefan back to be the villain based on how he was being referenced at the time onscreen, in more positive ways by Nikolas, etc. I think he was just going to be 'look, we got another vet' and probably play cheap romantic spoiler to LNL in Ron's mind.

All of the above for me.

That would confirm Malone's own comments. I do think they were putting pieces together before then though, as Megan is already talking about being in poor health in late August at Andy and Hunter's wedding.

I do see the vision there, but the writing had to support it and it often didn't back then. It could now - 30 years later, lol. It certainly worked for Sean and Laura Wright in 2012-2013, but Carlivati couldn't wait to get back to Roger Howarth.

She definitely didn't always fit. But she always was alive onscreen and entertaining as a villain, and that was enough for a lot of stuff for me back then. My favorite moment of Katherine that I recently revisited is when (IIRC) the Qs learn Brenda is dead. They were mid-argument about something or other and having some party with a cake set up, and as the family processes it and grieves Katherine simply saunters over to the cake and coolly snuffs out the candle, and you can't tell whether she actually has an emotional response or not. That's the button of the whole scene, and that's the character to me. I think if not for Billy Warlock not being an A-lead in the show's eyes and their constant fascination with Sonny and Jason even then, A.J. and Carly would've gone the distance. They still could today (though I would, in my quixotic dreams, still try to get back both Sarah and Sean Kanan).

Yep. He was doing some sort of weird Eurotrash Richard Dreyfuss thing on GH a lot of the time, honestly - it was bizarre and hilarious yet tiresome to watch. Given a halfway normal character (maybe an arrogant doctor a la Patrick Drake) I think he could still be thriving on that show.

I wasn't surprised either in 2001. Jackie's position had been on the wane for some time. The Roy/Bobbie story was deeply unpopular. I felt for both parties, because I actually think A Martinez worked well on the show and especially with both Luke and Laura (who, as we know, rumors persist that they almost tested him with) in terms of basic relationships, before JFP tried to center the show around him and Jensen Buchanan. Roy/Bobbie was just one of those forced pairings Riche tried to put over in '99 that led to her blow-up with Guza and both of them ultimately being x'ed out. They did. Caroline would know better than me (and may have answered by the time I reply here) but IIRC VM quickly realized she was out of her depth and asked them to end it. It was not a secret. Katherine was always unpopular, but as I've said before I don't think it was MBE's fault. I always felt she played that role to the absolute hilt and was fun to watch. Like SN, she was unrecognizable as her DAYS character (and I knew Stefan and Katherine before I knew Patch and Kayla) and made a great villainess. It was expecting us to root for Katherine as a long-term heroine that never worked. I'd welcome undead Katherine back today for a brief stint, though I'd probably be the only one - at least she had real teeth and claws. I actually liked the saga of Brenda's mom (a big question mark for me for years up to that point) but it was too rushed. Re: Bobbie/Carly, I was rewatching some of their late '98 stuff and I actually think it's very believable. They're much closer and warmer after what they've been through that year, but Carly still turns on her nastily when challenged re: Robin and this time Bobbie just shrugs it off and stays above the fray, serene. That works for me and is evolution, however imperfect. Check out 2:55 for a fateful line that Sarah delivers hilariously.

Yes, I remember the flirtation with both brothers in Jason's Quartermaine years. They tested her around heavily. I do think the time Jason and Brenda could've worked was in '02. It was seen as a stroke of genius, you're right, but I just remember thinking people were crazy to not remember the plane crash scenes years ago lol. Frons and his fetish for Alicia Leigh Willis got in the way, along with the network's inability to give Vanessa what she wanted to continue which I absolutely believe she would have done had she been properly compensated with money or time off. OTOH, while they did have serious chemistry I now believe it's probably for the best it didn't happen - I think it would've made Brenda a part of the Guza II-era Mob 4 for good (with Sonny and Carly solid at the time) and she's bigger and better than that, she stands apart. I also think it would've sectioned her off to Jason possibly permanently in the 2000s, and that doesn't work either.

What??

I don't remember Brenda losing all her money lol. Wild. I think Miranda was just one of a series of casting/story blunders by Riche in the latter years of her tenure (Hannah, Jax/Chloe, Jacob Young, Juan, the debatable A Martinez hire lol). But most great EPs (or HWs) have some of those on average. I do wonder if Guza or anyone else had any idea what they were doing with Jason and Brenda at this early date. I doubt it. I remember watching the airplane scenes with them live in '98 and thinking they were obviously going there next, but I was not particularly wedded to either of their prior couples at that time. It didn't shock me when Guza started exploring it again in 2002. Looking at it now, Steve and Vanessa had great chemistry but I kind of think it would've upended the show in probably an unnecessary way - the other couples were more money in the bank.

But if not for the useless extra year we wouldn't have the more healthy and mature Jax/Brenda endgame stuff I remember loving! Although I haven't watched much of it in decades and I am over them today lol. I think Sonny and Brenda is the only game left in town provided he ever changes, which he won't. I can't imagine Guza ever being into the Miranda they ended up casting after he was out the door. What a mess.

I never realized she supposedly looked different. I guess not that different?? Eh. I have no idea what Guza's endgame was with this quartet before he dipped.

I don't either. I thought Lucky literally couldn't stop playing it at one point or something? I guess a VR/ARG video game storyline was ahead of its time but very poorly done lol

November '96. I haven't seen this in 30 years. I was super into Stefan and Bobbie back in the day and it's still beyond me Culliton let it go. From what others have said, correct me if I'm wrong, they were still working from Guza's '96 outlines til December so I tend to count this as technically somewhat semi-Guza, as Karen Harris is still co-head with Culliton, lol. But of course you also already have Culliton's Miranda, miscast with Leslie Horan and taken far from the original planned intent, and the Timoria debacle. So it feels like kind of a mishmash, more than I remembered. It's such a shame how this next year was squandered due to the Sunset Beach situation. Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer. Bobbie and Jackie were always comfort characters to me back in the day as a kid - she was the first thing I hooked into about the show in '93. Whereas it took me awhile back then to warm up to SN/Stefan. I found him fascinating from the start and loved his intricate and gothic relationships with his family (including Alexis) but also found him very spooky and cold, even later on when the totally bungled execution of the actual Stefan/Laura pairing around '98/'99 was sleepy, neutered and listless, while I counted the seconds waiting for LNL to reunite which never quite happened. By his last 3-4 years before exiting in '01 I had grown to like and definitely want better for Stefan. Anyway, Stefan and Bobbie were very sexy to me even at this time, but seeing Bobbie with the Prince of Darkness was tricky for a kid to process lol. Today I have no such compunctions and I adore Stefan. And I think Stefan and Laura (per their scenes in '96) also could and should have been scorching if done right. The Sonny/Brenda stuff is quite good here too. It's such a tragedy what happened to this longtime dialogue staff.

I'll just say I'd forgotten that Stone's death is actually only the midpoint of the episode. That took real balls. The rest being dedicated to the community reaction and a series of codas (like the Luke/Lucky scene) was wonderful. I also loved Sonny's reaction when he came in and just bluntly asks 'is he dead?' while trying to process and function himself, just repeating it over. It felt all too real. Maurice was very good in those days. They had, I just rewatched that stuff. It was played for fun after Lucky and Emily's runaway silliness. I think the Lucy/Kevin stuff was both there to add some lightness but tie in the themes of life changing over time and Lucy maybe having an omen that Stone was about to die. I just assume Jenny hasn't been back in aeons. I know Paul mentioned her a few times and said his scheming ways or other sins drove her and their son away. What's wild is I suspect they intended to have Cheryl Richardson (among others) appear during the original Fluke saga when he was meant to be Bill. They even had someone (Ned?) calling Jenny or Julia IIRC.