DRW50

Thanks for replying as I didn't know if I'd worded my comment/criticism that well. I agree in the long run it did work as a push for Barbara, and the show mostly got the balance right for her until Sheffer. (sorry for anyone I didn't tag about the episode as I was half-asleep - and I know that era isn't to everyone's taste but I didn't know if any were trying to complete all of the Marland years)

Someone has uploaded a December 1992 episode I can't find elsewhere on Youtube. @Soapsuds @DramatistDreamer @Paul Raven @slick jones @P.J. @jam6242 @Vee @soapfan770 @adrnyc @SoapDope @FrenchFan @Franko @vetsoapfan @Mitch64 @Reverend Ruthledge @Mona Kane Croft @dc11786 @wonderwoman1951 @Soaplovers @VelekaCarruthers @Brolden @Liberty City @NothinButAttitude

Sadly, we learned how much of a different that makes to a racist public.

The show's obsession with Todd snuffed out much of the rest of her family. Just another reason that character, along with Viki's sexual abuse story, cast such a pall on OLTL's last years. Much as I loved Jessica Tuck's work, Ghost Megan should not have been the most compelling member of the family 20 years after her death.

I think the backstory was compelling (even if it mostly seemed to be used for Helena taunting her over and over), but that whole period was so fly by night (the 1997 period), and still very early in NLG's run, so I can see why she never felt that Alexis was a character.

Wasn't Richard Bekins in there briefly too?

I forgot about that. I don't believe Erica would have gone there (among other reasons because he was boring and likely bad in bed). Then by the end they had Michael Nouri, which would have made much more sense twenty years earlier.

That makes sense. I wish Erica had left a decade earlier (or the show had ended a decade earlier) so it wouldn't have felt so depleted. Clearly we weren't big fans of Erica's lost/last decade...

I also recommend this if you try to watch the Doctor Who specials. Nice to see Debbi.

I did like Terence on the show but I agree a Robert Hays type would have been a more natural fit. That was such a good little show, even if I think they would have needed a big cast upheaval (mainly at the soap) if they had gotten another season. Here's a bts visit with It Had to Be You, which appropriately seems to have been dropped in a vat of acid. The clip of Faye finding out and calling the network is or was on Youtube too.

This seemed to happen again and again with Erica. When Nixon became more involved in the show again Erica lost her beauty and had to wear a mask, which I just thought was kind of hilarious rather than making me feel emotionally invested. And of course Erica ended her run on the show planning to conquer Hollywood...in her 60s. The general fear of ever allowing Erica to age made for any number of painful choices, including her feuding with women 30 years her junior. Another Nixon choice that led to diminishing returns was trying to recreate Greg and Jenny over and over...and trying to recreate a class system that just felt very dated and false by the last attempt (with Scott and Becca - although I know they tried one last time on the revival with wretched RSW and that girl who lived with Francesca James). But at least it gave us Greenlee, the butchest homophobe ever on soaps. Yay.

I'd forgotten about that. I think the way she was used to try to break up Katherine/Stefan and then had her whole backstory rewritten by Guza, etc. is an example right from the getgo. Now I'm thinking back to how many times I had to sit through her and Ned saying they were "gatekeepers." Ugh. Hell. I am also sorry to hear about your mother.

Based on Jake and Cam, we may just need to hope they don't leave town never to be mentioned again.

I tend to think any of the strength in Alexis comes from NLG - the character has always been such a mess and the show has loved to sucker punch her any time she should be in a good place.

A reminder of just how huge Dallas was in the UK at this time: Larry also appears in this, with mother Mary Martin, around two hours and six minutes. He sings a JR-themed song while on his own.

I'm more confused over how they haven't worked out a return for Izzy, even a brief one. The frequent mentions as we never see her are odd. Holly is just overused and like many characters in the revival, feels empty underneath all the constant drama.

https://deadline.com/2024/11/paul-teal-dead-one-tree-hill-actor-1236180587/ This might be more suited to the OTH thread but that was locked in 2012.

Silence of the Lambs was so huge at the time - there were takes everywhere.

I think the reason there is a certain disparity about the concept of Mamie and how viewers felt about her is how Y&R, compared to other soaps at the time, fit into the style of '40s Hollywood. '40s Hollywood too had black servants who were not given their own lives but also not used as comic relief. Y&R of that time was such an immersive experience so you were part of that world - the Abbott family breakfasts that viewers of the time cherished. They all felt like a family to those viewers, Mamie included, even as you then have to remember Mamie had no real voice or life of her own. Mamie was allowed some dignity compared to many other soap maids of the era like Esther or Vivien, and a somewhat ambiguous placement. You remind yourself - well, that's not her family, and no matter how friendly they are to her, she is their servant, she has to do everything they don't want to do. But there's a certain blurring of lines which is difficult to figure out, especially compared to say, Vera on GL, where she had a very warm relationship with Alex but the undertone wasn't far off Scarlett O'Hara and Mammy at times. The ambiguity is down to no real matriarch in the Abbott family. This may be best shown in that completely delirious clip from early in Brenda's return where Dina visits the estate and has an extremely frosty encounter with Mamie, who barely bothers to defer to her. Then Jill is her usual pleasant self before she goes ten rounds with Dina. And you are reminded that Mamie essentially was the matriarch of the family, they just never fully say it out loud. It's telling that when they finally do say the quiet part out loud with Mamie and John, someone quickly got cold feet, although I'm never sure if that was Bell, CBS, or viewers (we never heard of it getting the virulent reaction the Neil/Victoria pairing received).

They seemed to quickly dump any plans of Trina/Gio for Joss/Gio, then that ended. It was sad to see people going on about how he was Trina's new love interest while he was ogling Joss. Carly Jr is such a scene-killer, I would like to think someone at the show realized, but her lesser airtime is probably a fluke. I feel like they resent that they got any increased attention or fan support during that story, and presumably resent any focus having to go to black characters. Any time people say the show is scared of Beyond the Gates I wonder why as Frank and co seem very comfortable with returning to a very white-heavy show to me (and it wasn't as if the black canvas was "up and pumping," as Maria Arena Bell would put it, before then either).

I would say that under Mulcahey's pen Roger was written much more sympathetically than he was at other times. I never saw that with Ava. But Ava is just a shell anyway, so who knows. Either way, I felt like she was on borrowed time. I don't think Valentin is gone, but Finn does seem to be, along with Howarth, unless ABC lets Frank do whatever he wants again.

She went back to Loving repeatedly.

I don't think the twist itself was a bad idea. Doing it so that Ridge and Bridget could hook up is another matter...

Something has never clicked to me in Genie's return performances (she had much more of a life in her work during her first run). Knowing that she was so horribly treated and never wanted to return helped me understand why.

Marland and ATWT - the very limited number of partners with the Snyders. A number of the stories made sense individually. I appreciate, for instance, that Angel found her first love with Caleb, then got involved with Holden for protection, and finally found healing and peace with Seth. Still, one woman was with all three brothers. Then there was Holden/Caleb and Julie, and Holden/Caleb and Lily. I wonder if Marland had any regrets over Caleb/Lily as I don't remember it ever being revisited. I can't give as much grace to the decisions made with the women in the Snyder family. Kirk going from Iva to Ellie. Iva and Emma dating the same man. If Marland had lived, I wouldn't be shocked if Iva had ended up with Ned Simon. This led to a very sadistic place where Iva had to keep forgiving, accepting, apologizing...and worst of all, had to attend the wedding of her sister and her rapist.