ALL: General Retro Soap Discussion

[te.]

Add that if you're going to go extra with expenses of a lot of people on set, would you rather go for a trial or a big party scene where people can actually interact with each other and not just mostly sit quietly in a courtroom set? 

I love a good soap trial, but from an expense point of view you don't get as much meaty material out of it necessarily for all actors. 

[Chris B]

GH and Y&R still do trials here and there but the biggest problem is that the current soaps don't really have the story to back up the need for a trial. Can you imagine any of them writing a compelling enough mystery that we'd want to willingly sit through a trial? 

[dc11786]

It probably was years ago now, but I think someone behind the scene cited the rise in shows like "Law & Order" and reality court tv had led to a belief that audiences wouldn't sit through long trials when they could get an entire story wrapped up in a single episode. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember who stated it. 

[Khan]

I agree.

Of course, a lot of great moments in soap history have occurred during trials.  But - like you said, @Chris B - those moments were outcomes of equally powerful storylines that built up to those moments.  It's like with everything else that used to happen with soaps but doesn't anymore: you have to take all the necessary steps to get the audience to the point where they WILL care, or else it won't work.

Edited February 21 by Khan

[Mona Kane Croft]

GH had a couple of trials over the past two or three years, but they weren't murder trials.  They seemed to me rather minor offenses to write court trials about. I think murder trials are more consequential and compelling.  But at least they still have a courtroom set.  

The last full murder trials I remember were those written by Douglas Marland on ATWT during the 1980s and early-90s. And Marland died in 1993.  There may have been murder trials on other soaps after 1993, but at the moment, I don't remember any.  

I've been told (but do not know first-hand) that even Edge of Night stopped having murder trials during its last couple of years on the air.  EON still had murders, but just not trials.  Jeeze -- I'm old enough to remember when EON tried to have two murder trials a year, if they could fit them in.  

Edited February 21 by Mona Kane Croft

[Xanthe]

The famous big moments in soap trials that I can think of hinged on testimony under oath that wasn't about guilt or innocence, they were things like baby Matthew's paternity on AW or Karen's prostitution on OLTL. Maybe those are outliers but the serial is a different beast from Law & Order and it seems to me thinking that the audience watches soaps to reach an ultimate end point is a misunderstanding of the genre. It sounds like there is an overall tendency nowadays to tell more linear stories and maybe that undermines trials as a tool for creating conflict and keeping story moving in a serial format.

 

[te.]

IDK, I've been re-watching Peyton Place lately and am in the middle of Rodney's trial for Joe's death. We know what happened, but what's far more interested is how it affects the entire canvas in one way or another. I guess that sort of tight soap umbrella writing really is done anymore. Plus I think they're also afraid if a storyline flops, it's easier if it's not all over the canvas.

 

Then again, we recently had Body & Soul, so... 

[robbwolff]

It's true that Edge didn't have many murder trials in its latter years, but it did feature a trial in its last few months as Raven went on trial for murder.

[Contessa Donatella]

[cough!] Uh, trying to imagine what a murder trial would've been like on UGH!!!!

[DRW50]

GL had Reva on trial for Annie's miscarriage. AMC had a trial for Michael Cambias' murder.

I generally find trials on soaps to be tedious and prone to self-parody, although they have their moments. 

Edited February 22 by DRW50

[Contessa Donatella]

Not sure where to post this, so, ... 

Speaking of Irna Phillips & P&G historically ...
1. Annotating Irna by Lynn Liccardo © 2025
(You can subscribe to this on Substack.)
Lynn Liccardo's 1st note on 
Annotating Irna…

A serendipitous symmetry…

Realized yesterday that “Television’s First Soap Opera” coincides with CBS’s introduction of its new soap opera, “Beyond the Gates,” which officially premiers next Monday, February 24th — the first new daytime soap in 26 years.

(and the beginning of the 1st "issue")

Annotating Irna..

Filling in the Backstory: Television’s First Soap Opera
Lynn Liccardo
Feb 17

SCENE:

INT. CHICAGO - WNBQ OFFICE – DAY - 1948
Irna, now 47, meets with NBC programming executives about creating a serial drama for television.

EXECUTIVE #1: 
Miss Phillips, welcome -

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Before we begin, my wife was curious about the spelling of your name -

IRNA: 
Observant lady! Yes, I was born Erna, with an E. But a fortune teller once told me that if I changed the E to an I, I would have great success. So -

EXECUTIVE #1: 
A perfect segue. You have indeed had great success writing serial dramas for radio. How many?

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Well, with The Guiding Light back on the air -

IRNA
On CBS -

EXECUTIVE #1
Yes, yes, on CBS. Here at NBC we think the time is right to start moving serial drama to television, and we want -

IRNA
I'm flattered, of course. I do see an intriguing commercial angle, where the product could be seen and used, but not announced, as in radio. But, as for serial dramas, there's an issue -

EXECUTIVE #1
Which is?

IRNA
There needs to be something that will allow women to follow the dialogue without constant attention to the visual element.

Executive #2 nods in agreement

EXECUTIVE #1
So, come help us find a solution.

Annotating Irna..

Filling in the Backstory: Television’s First Soap Opera
Lynn Liccardo
Feb 17

 

SCENE:

INT. CHICAGO - WNBQ OFFICE – DAY - 1948
Irna, now 47, meets with NBC programming executives about creating a serial drama for television.

EXECUTIVE #1: 
Miss Phillips, welcome -

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Before we begin, my wife was curious about the spelling of your name -

IRNA: 
Observant lady! Yes, I was born Erna, with an E. But a fortune teller once told me that if I changed the E to an I, I would have great success. So -

EXECUTIVE #1: 
A perfect segue. You have indeed had great success writing serial dramas for radio. How many?

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Well, with The Guiding Light back on the air -

IRNA
On CBS -

EXECUTIVE #1
Yes, yes, on CBS. Here at NBC we think the time is right to start moving serial drama to television, and we want -

IRNA
I'm flattered, of course. I do see an intriguing commercial angle, where the product could be seen and used, but not announced, as in radio. But, as for serial dramas, there's an issue -

EXECUTIVE #1
Which is?

IRNA
There needs to be something that will allow women to follow the dialogue without constant attention to the visual element.

Executive #2 nods in agreement

EXECUTIVE #1
So, come help us find a solution.

[janea4old]

(thank you to @BetterForgotten for finding this and posting this on the BTG threads.)


February 24, 2025, P&G pays tribute to Irna Phillips, within a BeyondTheGates promotion,
by doing a soap opera quiz.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGdCMrBxTXm/

Please register in order to view this content

(Click to watch the soap quiz video)

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Contessa Donatella]

Speaking of Irna Phillips & P&G historically ...
2. article by Alina Adams
Alina Sivorinovsky Wickham

In honor of the 88th anniversary of "The Guiding Light" today....
[https://alinaa.substack.com/.../writing-real-people-into...](https://alinaa.substack.com/.../writing-real-people-into...)

3. New book from Alina Adams
Alina Sivorinovsky Wickham

So, when I was 10 years old, I started reading Soap Opera Digest. And I've been reading it ever since. Today, I am in it:
By The Book: Alina Adams, who wrote the New York Times best-sellers Oakdale Confidential and The Man From Oakdale (tie-in novels for As the World Turns) and Jonathan’s Story (for Guiding Light), has a new novel coming out in May that uses soap history as its backdrop. Go On Pretending features soap pioneers Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and classic GL actors like Charita Bauer (ex-Bert Bauer) within its narrative as it dives into those nerve-racking days when The Guiding Light made the transition from radio to television, and the drama, bloopers and behind-the-scenes gossip which came with it. Anyone who pre-orders before 2/24/25 from the publisher will also get a free copy of Soap Opera 451: A Time Capsule of Daytime Drama’s Greatest Moments featuring interviews with actors like Julia Barr (ex-Brooke, All My Children), Linda Dano (ex-Felicia, Another World, et al.), Hilary B. Smith (ex-Nora, GH/OLTL; ex-Margo, ATWT), Eden Riegel (ex-Heather, Y&R; ex-Bianca, AMC), Victoria Rowell (ex-Drucilla, Y&R), Eileen Davidson (Ashley, Y&R; ex-Kristen, et. al., DAYS), Lane Davies (ex-Fergus/Cameron, GH; ex-Mason, Santa Barbara; ex-Evan, DAYS) and lots more.

4. another article by Alina Adams
Just in time for "Beyond the Gates" premiere next week, a tribute to the woman who invented daytime drama - and was the first to demonstrate the value of telling diverse stories. 
[https://www.kveller.com/the-jewish-woman-who-invented.../](https://www.kveller.com/the-jewish-woman-who-invented.../)

[All My Shadows]

Catching up, but re: GL in Peapack. I think one of the most embarrassing things I saw from that whole debacle was the Four Musketeers' high school "reunion" where they stood in a CLEARLY empty gym, gazing blankly in the direction of the camera and referring to "all of these people" that weren't actually there. Maybe there were like 4-5 people that we saw vaguely because they were meant to represent more people. The echoing was deafening. Then there was a scene with maybe Beth and Phillip in a random classroom.

Edited February 24 by All My Shadows

[Contessa Donatella]

So, there were many more extras present for the "My Two Mommies" classroom. Odd that would be different.