Jump to content

ALL: General Retro Soap Discussion


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Add that if you're going to go extra with expenses of a lot of people on set, would you rather go for a trial or a big party scene where people can actually interact with each other and not just mostly sit quietly in a courtroom set? 

I love a good soap trial, but from an expense point of view you don't get as much meaty material out of it necessarily for all actors. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 298
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members

GH and Y&R still do trials here and there but the biggest problem is that the current soaps don't really have the story to back up the need for a trial. Can you imagine any of them writing a compelling enough mystery that we'd want to willingly sit through a trial? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It probably was years ago now, but I think someone behind the scene cited the rise in shows like "Law & Order" and reality court tv had led to a belief that audiences wouldn't sit through long trials when they could get an entire story wrapped up in a single episode. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember who stated it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I agree.

Of course, a lot of great moments in soap history have occurred during trials.  But - like you said, @Chris B - those moments were outcomes of equally powerful storylines that built up to those moments.  It's like with everything else that used to happen with soaps but doesn't anymore: you have to take all the necessary steps to get the audience to the point where they WILL care, or else it won't work.

Edited by Khan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

GH had a couple of trials over the past two or three years, but they weren't murder trials.  They seemed to me rather minor offenses to write court trials about. I think murder trials are more consequential and compelling.  But at least they still have a courtroom set.  

The last full murder trials I remember were those written by Douglas Marland on ATWT during the 1980s and early-90s. And Marland died in 1993.  There may have been murder trials on other soaps after 1993, but at the moment, I don't remember any.  

I've been told (but do not know first-hand) that even Edge of Night stopped having murder trials during its last couple of years on the air.  EON still had murders, but just not trials.  Jeeze -- I'm old enough to remember when EON tried to have two murder trials a year, if they could fit them in.  

Edited by Mona Kane Croft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The famous big moments in soap trials that I can think of hinged on testimony under oath that wasn't about guilt or innocence, they were things like baby Matthew's paternity on AW or Karen's prostitution on OLTL. Maybe those are outliers but the serial is a different beast from Law & Order and it seems to me thinking that the audience watches soaps to reach an ultimate end point is a misunderstanding of the genre. It sounds like there is an overall tendency nowadays to tell more linear stories and maybe that undermines trials as a tool for creating conflict and keeping story moving in a serial format.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

IDK, I've been re-watching Peyton Place lately and am in the middle of Rodney's trial for Joe's death. We know what happened, but what's far more interested is how it affects the entire canvas in one way or another. I guess that sort of tight soap umbrella writing really is done anymore. Plus I think they're also afraid if a storyline flops, it's easier if it's not all over the canvas.

 

Then again, we recently had Body & Soul, so... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

GL had Reva on trial for Annie's miscarriage. AMC had a trial for Michael Cambias' murder.

I generally find trials on soaps to be tedious and prone to self-parody, although they have their moments. 

Edited by DRW50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Not sure where to post this, so, ... 

Speaking of Irna Phillips & P&G historically ...
1. Annotating Irna by Lynn Liccardo © 2025
(You can subscribe to this on Substack.)
Lynn Liccardo's 1st note on 
Annotating Irna…

A serendipitous symmetry…

Realized yesterday that “Television’s First Soap Opera” coincides with CBS’s introduction of its new soap opera, “Beyond the Gates,” which officially premiers next Monday, February 24th — the first new daytime soap in 26 years.

(and the beginning of the 1st "issue")

Annotating Irna..

Filling in the Backstory: Television’s First Soap Opera
Lynn Liccardo
Feb 17

SCENE:

INT. CHICAGO - WNBQ OFFICE – DAY - 1948
Irna, now 47, meets with NBC programming executives about creating a serial drama for television.

EXECUTIVE #1: 
Miss Phillips, welcome -

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Before we begin, my wife was curious about the spelling of your name -

IRNA: 
Observant lady! Yes, I was born Erna, with an E. But a fortune teller once told me that if I changed the E to an I, I would have great success. So -

EXECUTIVE #1: 
A perfect segue. You have indeed had great success writing serial dramas for radio. How many?

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Well, with The Guiding Light back on the air -

IRNA
On CBS -

EXECUTIVE #1
Yes, yes, on CBS. Here at NBC we think the time is right to start moving serial drama to television, and we want -

IRNA
I'm flattered, of course. I do see an intriguing commercial angle, where the product could be seen and used, but not announced, as in radio. But, as for serial dramas, there's an issue -

EXECUTIVE #1
Which is?

IRNA
There needs to be something that will allow women to follow the dialogue without constant attention to the visual element.

Executive #2 nods in agreement

EXECUTIVE #1
So, come help us find a solution.

Annotating Irna..

Filling in the Backstory: Television’s First Soap Opera
Lynn Liccardo
Feb 17

 

SCENE:

INT. CHICAGO - WNBQ OFFICE – DAY - 1948
Irna, now 47, meets with NBC programming executives about creating a serial drama for television.

EXECUTIVE #1: 
Miss Phillips, welcome -

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Before we begin, my wife was curious about the spelling of your name -

IRNA: 
Observant lady! Yes, I was born Erna, with an E. But a fortune teller once told me that if I changed the E to an I, I would have great success. So -

EXECUTIVE #1: 
A perfect segue. You have indeed had great success writing serial dramas for radio. How many?

EXECUTIVE #2: 
Well, with The Guiding Light back on the air -

IRNA
On CBS -

EXECUTIVE #1
Yes, yes, on CBS. Here at NBC we think the time is right to start moving serial drama to television, and we want -

IRNA
I'm flattered, of course. I do see an intriguing commercial angle, where the product could be seen and used, but not announced, as in radio. But, as for serial dramas, there's an issue -

EXECUTIVE #1
Which is?

IRNA
There needs to be something that will allow women to follow the dialogue without constant attention to the visual element.

Executive #2 nods in agreement

EXECUTIVE #1
So, come help us find a solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

(thank you to @BetterForgotten for finding this and posting this on the BTG threads.)


February 24, 2025, P&G pays tribute to Irna Phillips, within a BeyondTheGates promotion,
by doing a soap opera quiz.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGdCMrBxTXm/

Please register in order to view this content



(Click to watch the soap quiz video)

 

 

 

 

 

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Speaking of Irna Phillips & P&G historically ...
2. article by Alina Adams
Alina Sivorinovsky Wickham

In honor of the 88th anniversary of "The Guiding Light" today....
[https://alinaa.substack.com/.../writing-real-people-into...](https://alinaa.substack.com/.../writing-real-people-into...)

3. New book from Alina Adams
Alina Sivorinovsky Wickham

So, when I was 10 years old, I started reading Soap Opera Digest. And I've been reading it ever since. Today, I am in it:
By The Book: Alina Adams, who wrote the New York Times best-sellers Oakdale Confidential and The Man From Oakdale (tie-in novels for As the World Turns) and Jonathan’s Story (for Guiding Light), has a new novel coming out in May that uses soap history as its backdrop. Go On Pretending features soap pioneers Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and classic GL actors like Charita Bauer (ex-Bert Bauer) within its narrative as it dives into those nerve-racking days when The Guiding Light made the transition from radio to television, and the drama, bloopers and behind-the-scenes gossip which came with it. Anyone who pre-orders before 2/24/25 from the publisher will also get a free copy of Soap Opera 451: A Time Capsule of Daytime Drama’s Greatest Moments featuring interviews with actors like Julia Barr (ex-Brooke, All My Children), Linda Dano (ex-Felicia, Another World, et al.), Hilary B. Smith (ex-Nora, GH/OLTL; ex-Margo, ATWT), Eden Riegel (ex-Heather, Y&R; ex-Bianca, AMC), Victoria Rowell (ex-Drucilla, Y&R), Eileen Davidson (Ashley, Y&R; ex-Kristen, et. al., DAYS), Lane Davies (ex-Fergus/Cameron, GH; ex-Mason, Santa Barbara; ex-Evan, DAYS) and lots more.

4. another article by Alina Adams
Just in time for "Beyond the Gates" premiere next week, a tribute to the woman who invented daytime drama - and was the first to demonstrate the value of telling diverse stories. 
[https://www.kveller.com/the-jewish-woman-who-invented.../](https://www.kveller.com/the-jewish-woman-who-invented.../)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Catching up, but re: GL in Peapack. I think one of the most embarrassing things I saw from that whole debacle was the Four Musketeers' high school "reunion" where they stood in a CLEARLY empty gym, gazing blankly in the direction of the camera and referring to "all of these people" that weren't actually there. Maybe there were like 4-5 people that we saw vaguely because they were meant to represent more people. The echoing was deafening. Then there was a scene with maybe Beth and Phillip in a random classroom.

Edited by All My Shadows
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • No idea if this one had ever been up before or what the exact date is, but it's always good to look at/save the new AMC content while you can. If you're here for the drama there is some delirium with Adam and Erica about 10-12 minutes in.

      Please register in order to view this content

      @Vee @Jonathan @Maxim @All My Shadows @alwaysAMC @Contessa Donatella @Soaplovers @DemetriKane @dragonflies @AMCOLTLLover @Khan @Paul Raven @slick jones @Wendy @DeeVee @j swift @EricMontreal22 @AmandainNC28655 @Wilsoky @Franko @Liberty City @robbwolff @Soapsuds @soapfan770 @FrenchFan
    • I think there's a story to tell in someone who always believed in honesty and integrity being emmeshed in so many lies, but I agree that it wasn't very well laid out over the last few months. I think if I was more invested in Lois, I would have more of an issue than I do. Few can hold up against Jane. This is one of those cases where I think mentioning who already switched babies or have long-lost children would just take away from the fallout. If Lulu wants to drag Brook Lyn for hypocrisy there is probably still time (if the show bothers). I don't think anyone would claim these are the best GH episodes ever. It may be very lowered expectations at play. But I do think that scenes like yesterdays were some of Tracy's best, as she is a character who is often not allowed that type of moment.
    • You would think that, wouldn't you? I'd almost think they needed the money to get Robert Newman back, but they also had to know Larkin wasn't going to stick around and play second banana either. I don't get what the writers thought they were doing with Calla. Long liked using actors from Texas, but other than Alex/Bev McKinsey, the characters she wrote for them seemed blah.
    • Bo has a bad history with kids named Zach. (too soon?)
    • Christie said in her interview this week that she recently started taking acting classes again, and has been doing some work in England, so that helped her to jump into Carrie for this (as well as it being all so familiar, it really was home.)
    • Andrea Barber aka Kimmy Gibbler did have a few scenes with Drake too, when he first came on. Christie came in the middle of that storyline 
    • Carrie, as played by Andrea Barber, was at Bo & Hope's wedding. She was the flower girl. The ringbearer was Zachary Parker, the little boy that Megan tried to pass off as her and Bo's son. Andrea's Carrie was at Tony & Anna's real wedding (Aug. 5, 1985). She appeared for the last time on March 21, 1986. Christie's Carrie debuted on April 14, 1986. It appears that Carrie remained in Salem, just off-screen, during that near-month. Christie picked up with what Andrea had been playing, apprehension over John.
    • I don't think she is. I think she just created some really boring characters and for some reason doesn't know what to do with them.  But let's say that she is being force to write these characters that she doesn't like or want to write for.......that's a really bad sign that the creator of the show is being told what to do from the very beginning.  With so many EPs, I was worried there could be too many cooks in the kitchen, too many people giving notes - all those EPs are representing companies who have a stake in the show.    Canada continues to be one episode ahead. Thursday's US episode is another lacklustre episode, even with Leslie in it.  We'll see if Friday or Monday's episode in Canada will be a repeat. 
    • Like a lot of soaps, once relatives left, they kinda dropped off the face of the earth and out of conversations. I don't know why writers do that. If they just don't want to confuse viewers, or don't think it matters, or want the liberty kind of revise history to make their stories work. After Josh left in '84, he's barely mentioned. Even when Billy's railing against Kyle and refusing to accept him, it'd be the most natural thing in the world to say "Kyle's NOT by brother, JOSH is!" and I don't think he ever really says that.  The only writer I can recall who didn't do that is Doug Marland on ATWT. 
    • IIRC, there is a line during this time period where Reva says something like Marah is her first-born child, which fans were not thrilled with.  Dylan makes a few appearances through the rest of the show (and a much later recast that isn't really worth talking about, with a face that is familiar to you). He will make one briefly during 1997, if you get that far.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy