As always @dc11786 you have made great points and thank you for the insightful post.

A few things I would touch on to reply is that:

-I do believe Drake was fired when he was killed off.  Deidre said in a few interviews she was hysterical after those scenes and thought that was the end of Marlena/John.  I can't imagine how she feels now.  So, even if the plan was always to bring John/RoboJohn back I don't think the actors were aware of it.  Someone may know better than me, but that's how I took the public statements made at the time.

-I really do see your argument of stripping down the show without the weight of supercouples and sci-fi, but Days went too far, IMO.  It became almost unrecognizable and it was jolting.  I don't think that period without them was bad really, it just lacked the core of what I loved about Days.  Although I have had numerous people tell me that they did really enjoy this era.

-Maggie vs. Marlena isn't really a thing to me.  It did seem clear to me they gave much more prominence and value to SR after Deidre left, but as you said, they don't really fill the same roles on the show.  It was nice to see SR get some meaty material after years of being an afterthought.

-I actually think the return of CC as Carly wasn't the shot in the arm the show was hoping for.  I admittedly hate the character of Carly so can't be objective.  I think it's pretty obvious her return really flopped with viewers though.

-I had no problem with Ali being bumped to lead as it seemed like a natural progression.  I do think her real life pregnancy did make it difficult even though, as you stated, the Sydney switch was the best story in years.  After dumping John/Marlena I would have probably really tried to woo Christie back as Sami vs. Carrie is what the show should have focused on.

-I tend to agree the idea of 2011 re-boot was great, but the show didn't have solid stories for the returning actors.  The John/Marlena plot about John losing his money over insider trading or something was boring.  Carrie/Austin didn't really have a lot to do.  It did seemed like the show was focused on getting these characters back first and then writing later.  John/Marlena's story was pretty dull until Kristen showed up again.

-I will always like Melanie.  Yes, she got a lot of story, family and love interests and I can see how it would be annoying to some, but she brought a freshness and vitality to the younger set.  I do love Rachel Melvin and Shelly Hennig as well.  I also agree Kristen Renton was good.  It's a shame it was widely gossiped she was sleeping with upper management because I liked Morgan. 

I remember when they killed off John near the end of the Sheffer era. I agree, it was real. I was stunned then and stunned when they very unceremoniously wrote him and Marlena out under Higley not long after. The shockwaves around SON at the time were legit too, IIRC. I liked the idea of the relevant white collar crime story around their and Carrie/Austin's return in 2011, but I am often an apologist for the early part of that era. As with most things Days they didn't know how to play it out.

I also always liked Molly Burnett at least. She took too much grief from Daytime Confidential at its peak, but all I saw was a talented actress on a bad show.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I remember when they killed off John near the end of the Sheffer era. I agree, it was real. I was stunned then and stunned when they very unceremoniously wrote him and Marlena out under Higley not long after. The shockwaves around SON at the time were legit too, IIRC. I liked the idea of the relevant white collar crime story around their and Carrie/Austin's return in 2011, but I am often an apologist for the early part of that era. As with most things Days they didn't know how to play it out.

I also always liked Molly Burnett at least. She took too much grief from Daytime Confidential at its peak, but all I saw was a talented actress on a bad show.

Higley seemed to hate John/Marlena or at least Marlena lol.  It was so disappointing to watch John be RoboJohn for so long and then he gets his memory back a day before they leave.  And he's paralyzed.  It was an awful way for them to go out.  

The 2011 John/Marlena white collar story I suppose could have been good.  I liked it brought Carrie/Austin in to help them fight the charges.  Unfortunately, it was boring to me and I don't think that's exactly Deidre and Drake's bread and butter as a couple.  Wacky life threatening villains are for better or worse.

I totally forgot Daytime Confidential used to rip Molly Burnett.  I think that's why I thought she was universally hated.  Not anything to do with this thread, but it's strange how both Melanie and Chelsea became footnotes basically in Days history when they were dominating so much screen time a decade or so ago.

Edited October 6, 20241 yr by carolineg

28 minutes ago, carolineg said:

 And he's paralyzed.  It was an awful way for them to go out.  

It was so ignoble. I couldn't believe it.

31 minutes ago, Vee said:

It was so ignoble. I couldn't believe it.

It truly was.  It makes me mad all over again.  For those two to go out with a re-marriage in a hospital room and John with paralysis?  Ugh.  At least it was rectified a few years later, but I remember being furious at the time.  It showed such little respect for Deidre/Drake and Marlena/John who help carry the show for decades.  And of course both of them handled it like class acts (at least publicly).  

DRAKE HOGESTYN...FIRST LISTING ON "DAYS" CRAWL PRODUCTION PAPERWORK, EPISODE # 5149 (1/27/86)...

 

 

DRAKE HOGESTYN...WORKING WITH THE MARLENA DOUBLE WHILE DEIDRE HALL WAS TAPING "OUR HOUSE", EPISODE # 5256 (6/26/86)...

 

6 hours ago, carolineg said:

Higley seemed to hate John/Marlena or at least Marlena lol.  It was so disappointing to watch John be RoboJohn for so long and then he gets his memory back a day before they leave.  And he's paralyzed.  It was an awful way for them to go out.  

The 2011 John/Marlena white collar story I suppose could have been good.  I liked it brought Carrie/Austin in to help them fight the charges.  Unfortunately, it was boring to me and I don't think that's exactly Deidre and Drake's bread and butter as a couple.  Wacky life threatening villains are for better or worse.

I totally forgot Daytime Confidential used to rip Molly Burnett.  I think that's why I thought she was universally hated.  Not anything to do with this thread, but it's strange how both Melanie and Chelsea became footnotes basically in Days history when they were dominating so much screen time a decade or so ago.

I unsurprisingly despised Chelsea as well.

46 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

I unsurprisingly despised Chelsea as well.

Swamp Thing. UGH.

Billie's spawn was DEAD, carried in a suitcase. I think Reilly just could not stand that Bo/Hope had Shawn (Douglas) and seemed to want to even the score - whether it made sense or not.

7 hours ago, carolineg said:

It truly was.  It makes me mad all over again.  For those two to go out with a re-marriage in a hospital room and John with paralysis?  Ugh.  At least it was rectified a few years later, but I remember being furious at the time.  It showed such little respect for Deidre/Drake and Marlena/John who help carry the show for decades.  And of course both of them handled it like class acts (at least publicly).  

 

7 hours ago, Vee said:

It was so ignoble. I couldn't believe it.

Not to go too off topic but Shortland Street made this same choice with their leading man of 20 years, TK Samuels. Even worse, because not only was he paralyzed, but his final scene was him trying to stand up to make an inspirational speech, only to fall to the floor. Any time he's mentioned by his relatives it is just to say how much he is struggling and how unhappy he is. 

Back to John, I remember thinking they wanted rid of him around 2007 too. Or at least Sheffer had no use for him. Wasn't he in a coma for a while after EJ shot him? 

 

2006-07 was that weird period where they were trying to figure out the budget but hadn't yet. They had John in that coma for a while after EJ shot him, and they were constantly side-lining the vets for months on end, either to save money explicitly or to test how the show would run without them. So I fully believe that John was supposed to be out-out when they killed him off in 2007. The culmination of all this was when Tomlin instituted the new production model in 2008, which led to the belt-tightening and the exits of John, Marlena, Steve, and Kayla in early 2009 (onscreen). 

7 hours ago, Antoyne said:

I unsurprisingly despised Chelsea as well.

I liked Chelsea at certain points in her run.  I will say it's to Rachel Melvin's credit that Chelsea ever became semi-rootable after killing her little brother.  Not really on topic, but it's very strange the show went to all the trouble to retcon J.T. into Bo's kid only for Chelsea to mow him down and he surprisingly never should up alive again lol.

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Back to John, I remember thinking they wanted rid of him around 2007 too. Or at least Sheffer had no use for him. Wasn't he in a coma for a while after EJ shot him? 

 

Yes he was in a coma for months right before he was killed off.  Marlena would weep at his bedside and have dreams of her and John being together and it was extremely corny.  Marlena was still used sparingly with other characters, but half her scenes were arguing with Drs telling her to pull the plug on John or having this idiotic dream sequences.    I felt like Sheffer either didn't like John or just didn't know how to write for John/Marlena as a couple.   I think Sheffer wanted to make Marlena darker and she was a bit after John's death vowing revenge on Stefano and all that.   Since John was only gone for a few months I have a feeling the network or some higher up may have stepped in and forced HS to write Drake back in.

7 minutes ago, Michael said:

2006-07 was that weird period where they were trying to figure out the budget but hadn't yet. They had John in that coma for a while after EJ shot him, and they were constantly side-lining the vets for months on end, either to save money explicitly or to test how the show would run without them. So I fully believe that John was supposed to be out-out when they killed him off in 2007. The culmination of all this was when Tomlin instituted the new production model in 2008, which led to the belt-tightening and the exits of John, Marlena, Steve, and Kayla in early 2009 (onscreen). 

Yes, they also got rid of Marlena's penthouse set around this time (2007) because it was too expensive.  Marlena just moved out and sold it off screen while John was in a coma and I was so devastated because I still miss that set!

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Yes, they also got rid of Marlena's penthouse set around this time (2007) because it was too expensive.  Marlena just moved out and sold it off screen while John was in a coma and I was so devastated because I still miss that set!

And then trying to sell the current set at their penthouse, when it's nothing but a damned living room.

I remember really enjoying the period after John was “killed” and returned as RoboJohn. Deidre had some incredible scenes, including threatening Stefano. It was the first time I felt stakes for anyone after the cartoon of Melaswen. Drake also got to play something new, and it was fun watching both of them.

My only problem with that period of time they were gone was the show should have stabilized Bo and Hope and let them have adventures together. Even in a small scale solving local crimes. Utilizing Maggie was wonderful, but they could have helped it from feeling like Sami all the time. And even that was more like EJ all the time.

But there was a hole in the heart of the show. Drake should have always had a place and I was happy to see him when they brought him back.

3 hours ago, carolineg said:

Yes, they also got rid of Marlena's penthouse set around this time (2007) because it was too expensive.  Marlena just moved out and sold it off screen while John was in a coma and I was so devastated because I still miss that set!

I miss that set so much. This 'townhouse' set is so bland and without character. It's wild that we've had this set for longer than we had the penthouse!