Best thing Alex has done so far. I actually agreed with him 😂

 

11 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I didn't hate the Bo/Carly/Hope story. I felt Kristian Alfonso did some of her strongest work in those scenes where Carly showed up at Maggie Horton's house after Mickey had died and Hope confronted Carly about the affair. To me, that was just really solid soap opera. I also loved how when Hope learned that Carly had a child out there, she contemplated that Bo might be the father, but dismissed it because she knew that Bo wouldn't keep that from her. When I had started watching in the 1990s, Carly and Bo were the couple and I adored them. I liked them being reunited even though it was clear from the beginning that Carly was an obstacle and there was no plan to keep Carly and Bo together.

If anything, there wasn't enough story to tell with Bo and Carly at the center of it as a couple. Carly was clearly intended for Daniel Jonas and was pretty quickly thrust into the Daniel / Chloe / Philip / Melanie / Nathan saga with playing Chloe's confidante. It worked because of Bo's connection to Phillip and Daniel. I really enjoyed Chloe and Phillip's one night stand and all the complicated mess that came out of it. With that said, Bo and Carly were a couple mostly in name only. Bo spent most of the same time period involved in the Nighttime Hope stuff, as I recall. 

To be fair, in some ways, Higley's second round at "Days of our Lives" was a much quieter show than it had been in many years and that was quite an adjustment for cast and viewers. I really enjoyed Bo and Hope integrated into the canvas more than having the need for them to drive story 24/7. I actually really enjoyed angsty Bo and Hope driven by the unresolved feelings from Zach's death, Bo's need to be in control, and Hope's stubborness in reacting to Bo's possessiveness. I think the show could have done a better job with the break up Bo and Carly. For me, Bo's hero complex was at the center of his romantic stories of that time and examining how Bo ultimately needed to save someone would have been interesting if that was part of the manifestation of Carly's drug dependency. Also, I wish post-prison Hope and Bo had a longer reconilliation period, not so much rocked by massive threats to their relationship, but rather two adults trying to navigate a happy medium before settling down again. Also, with a stronger sense of community, characters could react to other people's stories during that time and it was still meaningful. 

I guess I can agree the bones of the story were good, but I disliked it.  Full disclosure: I don't like Carly or CC.  She was okay in the 90's I guess? But she seemed so lethargic in her return.  Bo is the only character out of all this I really like and he didn't come off well.  Hope has her good moments, but I felt like this was the beginning of her descent into completely unlikable.

I did like Chloe/Phillip and wish they kept Parker his.  Maybe the moral of the story is Daniel Jonas ruined everything.  I love Melanie, so she was fantastic regardless of being saddled with lame parents.

Today was fine.

 

Leo hitting on Shawn and playing to his non-existent jury was LOL. I don't mind.

 

Sonny/Alex have decent brother chemistry. I like how quick Alex was in saying Leo sexually assaulted Sonny and he wanted to go kick his ass. Sloan made me lol. I like her way more than I thought I would.

 

Not sure what drama Orpheus could give Kayla/Steve at this point unless he has the hots for her.

 

Nice to see Stephanie. When I started watching Beyond Salem2 I had no idea she was coming on the main show. Pretty sure she's slated for Alex, so, oy, we will see how that goes.

 

I like Billy Flynn and Chad; so sue me. I lol'd at Jada's (a great addition and she can act) reaction to people being held hostage in tunnels like it was nothing. Is Billy Flynn leaving? Not sure where Chad can go storywise?? Chad/Stephanie/Alex?

 

Jack SO wanted to suspect Gwen. It was nice to see Matthew Ashford pop up. Is he still recurring? Was also nice seeing Cady as Jennifer last week.

 

Do we know who killed Abigail? (I missed her murder). I take it it was Gwen, since they're having a point of characters saying it COULDN'T be Leo. "He's trash but not a murderer" is LOL. Nothing against Emily O'Brien at all but it seems Gwen doesn't have anywhere to go on the canvas. 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by KMan101

4 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I didn't hate the Bo/Carly/Hope story. I felt Kristian Alfonso did some of her strongest work in those scenes where Carly showed up at Maggie Horton's house after Mickey had died and Hope confronted Carly about the affair. To me, that was just really solid soap opera. I also loved how when Hope learned that Carly had a child out there, she contemplated that Bo might be the father, but dismissed it because she knew that Bo wouldn't keep that from her. When I had started watching in the 1990s, Carly and Bo were the couple and I adored them. I liked them being reunited even though it was clear from the beginning that Carly was an obstacle and there was no plan to keep Carly and Bo together.

If anything, there wasn't enough story to tell with Bo and Carly at the center of it as a couple. Carly was clearly intended for Daniel Jonas and was pretty quickly thrust into the Daniel / Chloe / Philip / Melanie / Nathan saga with playing Chloe's confidante. It worked because of Bo's connection to Phillip and Daniel. I really enjoyed Chloe and Phillip's one night stand and all the complicated mess that came out of it. With that said, Bo and Carly were a couple mostly in name only. Bo spent most of the same time period involved in the Nighttime Hope stuff, as I recall. 

To be fair, in some ways, Higley's second round at "Days of our Lives" was a much quieter show than it had been in many years and that was quite an adjustment for cast and viewers. I really enjoyed Bo and Hope integrated into the canvas more than having the need for them to drive story 24/7. I actually really enjoyed angsty Bo and Hope driven by the unresolved feelings from Zach's death, Bo's need to be in control, and Hope's stubborness in reacting to Bo's possessiveness. I think the show could have done a better job with the break up Bo and Carly. For me, Bo's hero complex was at the center of his romantic stories of that time and examining how Bo ultimately needed to save someone would have been interesting if that was part of the manifestation of Carly's drug dependency. Also, I wish post-prison Hope and Bo had a longer reconilliation period, not so much rocked by massive threats to their relationship, but rather two adults trying to navigate a happy medium before settling down again. Also, with a stronger sense of community, characters could react to other people's stories during that time and it was still meaningful. 

Dena & Chris Whitesell as co-hws, I guess along with Gary Tomlin as EP, not only saved “Days,” but ushered it into a real creative renaissance.  And I think Dena Higley is THE WORST, but this is a fact… and what really seemed to do it were the baby switch story (feat. Nicole, Sami, EJ, Rafe, and Brady) and Crystal C. and Louise S.’s returns.  (I also personally hate Carly.) They figured out how to refocus the canvas with a small cast and a very small budget.  But it didn’t last and by the Nighttime Hope began, the momentum was waning and by Feb. 2011, Corday stepped in and the whole show got majorly tweaked and this creative team was dead and buried.

I think the biggest problem with the Hope/Bo/Carly storyline was that it was born out of Dena being a raging Hope stan. Hope was the only one with a POV and we were told her homicidal rage was justified by decades of Bo’s wandering (with Billie).  I thought it was the most intellectually dishonest, not to mention insane, story.  However, the name “Nighttime Hope” still makes me and my best friend laugh lolol.  But, ya, they REALLY milked Hope/Justin for all it was worth without ever going there.  Justin, not Bo (or even Jenn or her other family members), was even her primary support system during Alice’s death.

When Gary Tomlin & Chris Whitesell returned in 2012, I think they proved they were always the brains behind 2009.  The show, for better or worse, completely scratched DRT & MMcP’s “Reboot” year and it was essentially reset to when they left, but without Dena there was such stronger focus and quality, even if I disagreed with some of their priorities (Daniel being #1).  I also attribute the day-to-day quality of the TomSell era to Lorraine Broderick as breakdown writer.  And going back to Adrienne, I thought they did really well with her and am devastated RC killed her (he honestly did well with her, too!).

To this day, I consider Chris Whitesell the best writer I’ve seen (when it comes to Days) It still would be nice to see him come back.

He really balanced Higley out, to the point where I thought those years were brilliant. You could practically tell who was writing each story. The Kiriakis/Dimera war, Nighttime Hope, Fake Rafe was probably Higley. And Sami/EJ/Nicole, the baby switch, EJ faking Sydney’s death, Parker’s paternity and what it meant to Daniel/Chloe/Philip/Melanie/Nathan/Stephanie (the better stories) were probably all Whitesell 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by AbcNbc247

7 hours ago, DynamiteKiddo said:

Dena & Chris Whitesell as co-hws, I guess along with Gary Tomlin as EP, not only saved “Days,” but ushered it into a real creative renaissance.  And I think Dena Higley is THE WORST, but this is a fact… and what really seemed to do it were the baby switch story (feat. Nicole, Sami, EJ, Rafe, and Brady) and Crystal C. and Louise S.’s returns.  (I also personally hate Carly.) They figured out how to refocus the canvas with a small cast and a very small budget.  But it didn’t last and by the Nighttime Hope began, the momentum was waning and by Feb. 2011, Corday stepped in and the whole show got majorly tweaked and this creative team was dead and buried.

I think the biggest problem with the Hope/Bo/Carly storyline was that it was born out of Dena being a raging Hope stan. Hope was the only one with a POV and we were told her homicidal rage was justified by decades of Bo’s wandering (with Billie).  I thought it was the most intellectually dishonest, not to mention insane, story.  However, the name “Nighttime Hope” still makes me and my best friend laugh lolol.  But, ya, they REALLY milked Hope/Justin for all it was worth without ever going there.  Justin, not Bo (or even Jenn or her other family members), was even her primary support system during Alice’s death.

When Gary Tomlin & Chris Whitesell returned in 2012, I think they proved they were always the brains behind 2009.  The show, for better or worse, completely scratched DRT & MMcP’s “Reboot” year and it was essentially reset to when they left, but without Dena there was such stronger focus and quality, even if I disagreed with some of their priorities (Daniel being #1).  I also attribute the day-to-day quality of the TomSell era to Lorraine Broderick as breakdown writer.  And going back to Adrienne, I thought they did really well with her and am devastated RC killed her (he honestly did well with her, too!).

I agree that Higley, Whitsell, and Tomlin managed to reinvigorate a show that had mostly atrophied from years of neglect and was on life support. Besides the things you already mentioned (the baby switch, Chappell and Sorel's returns, and working within a budget), this regime focused on emotional outcomes, building storylines to payoff, and building non-romantic relationships between characters in order to keep time between signifcant story beats interesting. Intergenerational story telling also really helped. The show also, I think this is really important, was no longer being run with the philosophy that super couples had to be front and center and dominating a majority of the storytelling.

Avoiding those sacred cows helped a lot. Characters also no longer returned just because they were big names. There had to be enough reasons suddenly to justify why they were returning on contract for a two year period. Vivian returned to enact revenge on Carly for killing Lawrence in November, but, by December, there were already interactions with Victor and Kate regarding Phillip and it was clear what Vivian's second arc was going to be once the revenge story was over. Similarly, Chappell was returning as a Bo / Carly spoiler, but the Melanie angle was eventually going to give way to the Carly / Daniel angle. The show was written as if it was a show that had the possibility of staying on the air. 

In the end, I dipped out for a bit during Nighttime Hope. I thought the tribute for Alice Horton, and Francis Reid, was lovely and full of great moments (Bill wondering what life would have been like with Kate, Kim and Shane's reconcilliation after years apart, Jen/Mike/Bill/Laura all together), but I think it was a mistake to wholesale stop the rest of the show to tell that story for a month or so. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have done it, but rather that material, even if filmed in advance, should have been spread out over time. 

Regarding Hope's point of view, what I remember from that time was the show was driven by a series of female characters (Sami, Nicole, Hope, Chloe, Carly, Melanie). According to what Higley wrote, from prior to Whitsell and Tomlin arriving, the bone of contention in Hope and Bo's relationship stemmed from their son Zach's death and the fact that Bo kept Hope in the dark about his daughter Chelsea's role in it. At the time, I don't think this had been brought up much prior to Higley's arrival, and I was willing to go with the fact that losing a child would have a huge impact on a marriage and it wasn't something that would have been easily resolved. Almost all of the stories Bo and Hope had in that era revolved around that dynamic. After Bo had hid evidence that may have implicated Phillip in Paul Hollingsworth's disappearance, Hope was offered the position of chief of police which would have put her over Bo, but she didn't accept the position. When Hope was suspended for shooting Kayla, the specific reason Hope went on leave was because her superior office, Bo, did not give her permission to fire her weapon and he had done so because he hadn't told her about his visions. Ciara's kidnapping in the summer had a similar issues. It was all driven by emotion and it was effective.

To me, the end of Higley/Whitsell/Tomlin was a combination of things. As I recall, the show was preparing for the possibility that Allison Sweeney might not return by re-introducing Taylor Walker. The idea was smart, but the execution (and casting) were pure misery. The Taylor/EJ/Nicole stuff was just bad. At the same time, Shelley Heining and Jay Kenneth Johnson had elected not to renew their contracts with Mark Hapka's contract being terminated after a rather contentious conflict with TPTB over the fact that Nathan did little more than pine for Melanie. Heining's wedding day breakdown where Nathan confronts Stephanie over her lies and involvement in Parker's paternity switch is one of my favorite "Days of our Lives" confrontations to this day.

To me, blowing up the Nathan/ Melanie/ Phillip/ Stephanie quad was a bigger issue than is often cited in the downfall of the show in 2011. Having to reset that story, after just resetting the Nicole storyline was too much. It was very clear where it was all going. Nathan and Melanie, after learning about both Stephanie and Phillip's deception, would have reunited with Melanie's pregnancy being the lingering shadow that kept Phillip in Melanie and Nathan's life. Melanie's miscarriage was inevitable as it would be the motivation for Melanie and Phillip to reunite and provide a united family front for Phillip to gain custody of Parker. Meanwhile, I imagine Stephanie would have become involved with Dario and played something akin to the Patch/Kayla romance before having Nathan try to "save" her. God I loved Nathan and Melanie. 

Fake Rafe and Nighttime Hope were the weakest spots of that era for sure. I actually liked the Dimera / Kiriakis war. Though, I also liked Carly's drug dependency and Chloe's post-partum induced prostitution stint so I'm not really the best judge of character lol

Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell provided the bones/structure for good storytelling, with much of that regimes strong points being listed above. 

Tomlin/Whitesell really built upon that with their last stint and the show was pretty good for awhile under them, until the end of course. One story under them that I wish they would have gotten to tell, or at least I'm curious about, are their original plans for Jordan/Ben/Clyde. It seemed like this would be a rehash of Curtis/Billie/Austin, with Billie/Austin being Ben/Jordan. Would a murder mystery had taken place down the road, with Kate, Sami, Ben, Jordan, and Rafe being the suspects? Who knows? As soon as Tomlin/Whitesell were out of the door, this story and Jordan's rape was swept under the rug forgotten by future regimes. 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by MichaelGL

Well, now I feel terrible because we're talking about past storylines and headwriter regimes, etc. I guess I'll swing the pendulum real quick and then it can swing back to Higley, Whitsell, and Tomlin. What I'm about to say is one of my biggest pet peeves, and I'm going to pretend that the Kiriakis mansion is MY house. You know what I'm sayin'? MY house. This message is for the character of Sloane:

Noel: "Bitch! Go yo' nasty ass feet and your Zirconium [!@#$%^&*]*n' shoes off my table. This is MY house. You don't be puttin' your gross bacteria-infested feet near my breakfast food. I don't come waltzin' up into your crib and telling you that your living room curtains look like sh*t. Don't be comin' up to MY house with that level of disrespect. Bitch! Get your nasty ass feet off my table and get out."

Sigh. Now I feel better. 😌

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Noel

4 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I agree that Higley, Whitsell, and Tomlin managed to reinvigorate a show that had mostly atrophied from years of neglect and was on life support. Besides the things you already mentioned (the baby switch, Chappell and Sorel's returns, and working within a budget), this regime focused on emotional outcomes, building storylines to payoff, and building non-romantic relationships between characters in order to keep time between signifcant story beats interesting. Intergenerational story telling also really helped. The show also, I think this is really important, was no longer being run with the philosophy that super couples had to be front and center and dominating a majority of the storytelling.

Avoiding those sacred cows helped a lot. Characters also no longer returned just because they were big names. There had to be enough reasons suddenly to justify why they were returning on contract for a two year period. Vivian returned to enact revenge on Carly for killing Lawrence in November, but, by December, there were already interactions with Victor and Kate regarding Phillip and it was clear what Vivian's second arc was going to be once the revenge story was over. Similarly, Chappell was returning as a Bo / Carly spoiler, but the Melanie angle was eventually going to give way to the Carly / Daniel angle. The show was written as if it was a show that had the possibility of staying on the air. 

In the end, I dipped out for a bit during Nighttime Hope. I thought the tribute for Alice Horton, and Francis Reid, was lovely and full of great moments (Bill wondering what life would have been like with Kate, Kim and Shane's reconcilliation after years apart, Jen/Mike/Bill/Laura all together), but I think it was a mistake to wholesale stop the rest of the show to tell that story for a month or so. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have done it, but rather that material, even if filmed in advance, should have been spread out over time. 

Regarding Hope's point of view, what I remember from that time was the show was driven by a series of female characters (Sami, Nicole, Hope, Chloe, Carly, Melanie). According to what Higley wrote, from prior to Whitsell and Tomlin arriving, the bone of contention in Hope and Bo's relationship stemmed from their son Zach's death and the fact that Bo kept Hope in the dark about his daughter Chelsea's role in it. At the time, I don't think this had been brought up much prior to Higley's arrival, and I was willing to go with the fact that losing a child would have a huge impact on a marriage and it wasn't something that would have been easily resolved. Almost all of the stories Bo and Hope had in that era revolved around that dynamic. After Bo had hid evidence that may have implicated Phillip in Paul Hollingsworth's disappearance, Hope was offered the position of chief of police which would have put her over Bo, but she didn't accept the position. When Hope was suspended for shooting Kayla, the specific reason Hope went on leave was because her superior office, Bo, did not give her permission to fire her weapon and he had done so because he hadn't told her about his visions. Ciara's kidnapping in the summer had a similar issues. It was all driven by emotion and it was effective.

To me, the end of Higley/Whitsell/Tomlin was a combination of things. As I recall, the show was preparing for the possibility that Allison Sweeney might not return by re-introducing Taylor Walker. The idea was smart, but the execution (and casting) were pure misery. The Taylor/EJ/Nicole stuff was just bad. At the same time, Shelley Heining and Jay Kenneth Johnson had elected not to renew their contracts with Mark Hapka's contract being terminated after a rather contentious conflict with TPTB over the fact that Nathan did little more than pine for Melanie. Heining's wedding day breakdown where Nathan confronts Stephanie over her lies and involvement in Parker's paternity switch is one of my favorite "Days of our Lives" confrontations to this day.

To me, blowing up the Nathan/ Melanie/ Phillip/ Stephanie quad was a bigger issue than is often cited in the downfall of the show in 2011. Having to reset that story, after just resetting the Nicole storyline was too much. It was very clear where it was all going. Nathan and Melanie, after learning about both Stephanie and Phillip's deception, would have reunited with Melanie's pregnancy being the lingering shadow that kept Phillip in Melanie and Nathan's life. Melanie's miscarriage was inevitable as it would be the motivation for Melanie and Phillip to reunite and provide a united family front for Phillip to gain custody of Parker. Meanwhile, I imagine Stephanie would have become involved with Dario and played something akin to the Patch/Kayla romance before having Nathan try to "save" her. God I loved Nathan and Melanie. 

Fake Rafe and Nighttime Hope were the weakest spots of that era for sure. I actually liked the Dimera / Kiriakis war. Though, I also liked Carly's drug dependency and Chloe's post-partum induced prostitution stint so I'm not really the best judge of character lol

Oh I so agree with almost everything!  They did the unthinkable moving the show away from the super couples… abruptly losing S&K and J&M… turned out fine.  Who would’ve thought?!?  And the inter-generational storytelling was so smart, as evidenced by Maggie being one of that period’s breakout stars.

Alice’s tribute did stall the show, though it was so touching and lovely, for all the reasons you mentioned.  That seemed to really kill the Nicole/Brady/Ariana/EJ quad, which was a shame because James Scott and Lindsay Korman really sparked.  But along with JJ, SH, and MH very abruptly leaving, I noticed very obvious network interference at that time with breaking up Brady & Nicole (my fav. Higley creation) and moving to the disastrous Nicole/EJ/Taylor triangle.  B&H were quickly reunited and the subsequent Jenn/Daniel/Carly triangle was a mess with Carly’s addiction.  Brady/Melanie/Dario had no legs.  And let’s not even go there with Chloe/Quinn/Vivian. Take of 2 Rafes—omg!  Lol.

I also totally agree that Phil/Mel/Nate/Steph was fire and dropping that was such a shame because there was so much build up, years of story potential, and the four actors worked SO well together.  SH’s turn as a villainous Steph was a vision and her dark/light angel role models with Sami and Adrienne was very inspired.  And I also LOVED Nathan & Melanie and eventually wanted Phil & Steph to reconcile (very Carrie/Austin/Sami/Lucas).

And I hear you about Zach being the crux of B&H’s problems, but I still only remember that being singularly told from Hope’s POV, which so didn’t work for me.

Leo was a little too much today. I'm sure we all know who wrote today's breakdown. But other than that, it was a pretty good episode. Sloan going head to head with Rafe was fun to see.

Episodes are much better when things are taken seriously.

5 hours ago, Noel said:

Well, now I feel terrible because we're talking about past storylines and headwriter regimes, etc. I guess I'll swing the pendulum real quick and then it can swing back to Higley, Whitsell, and Tomlin. What I'm about to say is one of my biggest pet peeves, and I'm going to pretend that the Kiriakis mansion is MY house. You know what I'm sayin'? MY house. This message is for the character of Sloane:

Noel: "Bitch! Go yo' nasty ass feet and your Zirconium [!@#$%^&*]*n' shoes off my table. This is MY house. You don't be puttin' your gross bacteria-infested feet near my breakfast food. I don't come waltzin' up into your crib and telling you that your living room curtains look like sh*t. Don't be comin' up to MY house with that level of disrespect. Bitch! Get your nasty ass feet off my table and get out."

Sigh. Now I feel better. 😌

Hahaha Sonny wouldn't do that 😂

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by AbcNbc247

Who wrote todays script? Did Days get some new talent?

48 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Who wrote todays script? Did Days get some new talent?

Kirk Doering

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Hahaha Sonny wouldn't do that 😂

LOL! Come to think of it, I'm trying to remember RSW's first day as Alex Kiriakis. I remember him being shirtless for a second, but if I'm distracted doing computer stuff, then I'm not really paying that much attention to what's going on. Then again, there's this part of me that thinks he did put his feet on the table too, but I can't remember if he was wearing flip-flops or sandals. Anywhoos, I'll pop-off on him too. 

He was even eating the fruit after the social media influencer or whatever the hell she is had her feet near that breakfast food too. So gross. 

😂😂😂

Somewhere RSW is livid!!

 

Can somebody refresh my memory about Stefan and Chloe's relationship? Or lack thereof? All this talk about it today and I realized that I barely remember anything that happened between them. Literally the only thing I remember them doing is playing chess together

Edited August 19, 20223 yr by AbcNbc247