7 hours ago, Khan said:

If you have issues with how Bill Bell, who created this [!@#$%^&*] show and guided it for over twenty-five years -- many of those years spent either at the top of the ratings or close to it -- wrote Y&R, then maybe Y&R is not the show for you.

I'm just saying.

Next, I expect to hear something like, 

"Irna Phillips, what did she really do anyway?"

We hold Bill Bell to a higher standard, but even he had missteps: several stories during the 1980-1982 transition era, Cricket eating the show from summer 1986 to the end of 1989, Nick/Sharon eating the show from fall 1994 to spring 1996, the lull of fall 1996 through the first half of 1997.

Since John Abbott was killed off, it's been one misstep after another. 

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

We hold Bill Bell to a higher standard, but even he had missteps: several stories during the 1980-1982 transition era, Cricket eating the show from summer 1986 to the end of 1989, Nick/Sharon eating the show from fall 1994 to spring 1996, the lull of fall 1996 through the first half of 1997.

Since John Abbott was killed off, it's been one misstep after another. 

Add Brad in a cage fiasco to the list.

12 hours ago, LondonScribe said:

Funnily enough, it wasn’t always like this with Josh Griffith. I thought he steadied the show somewhat in 2008, during the Writer’s Strike, after the mess Lynn Marie Latham made of it  (though parts of that period were a giant nothing burger).

As well as 2012-13 as Head Writer, after Maria Arena Bell/Scott Hamner/Hogan Sheffer took things off the rails. Introducing Hilary, amongst others, and going some way to at least explaining Sharon’s behaviour under Maria Bell, even though I believe he started that paternity switch with Summer, Jack and Nick. I can’t recall. 

And I’m one of seemingly few people who actually liked his very (and I mean VERY) dark take on Days Of Our Lives in 2015-16, though I accept he likely went a couple of steps too far at the end with Hope killing Stefano and Ciara’s rape.

But this 3rd go around with Y&R?… this isn’t it. For all the reasons stated before and more succinctly. 

And this is why I miss you and your commentary.

 

I also like his run on DAYS until the double Aidan story that destroyed last potential relationship post-Bo. I liked his Generation Next crew, but he went waaaaay too far with the rape. NO.

 

And I liked the 2012-2013 run as well. That I will give him. Though I feel I was the only person that was for that paternity story. 

 

But I agree with what people say about this round. Outside of the period around Justin Gaston's Chance marrying Abby and the introduction of Naya and Imani, JG's attempt to try to start writing from where he left off in 2013 when too many more interesting changes (and leavings) had happened was a failure from start. 

Can anyone tell me why Dom is wearing  that stupid ski hat every time he's been on camera since he escaped the blanket?  I understand outside, but 99% of his scenes have been indoors in his home.

Just reflecting that Victor and Jack were both introduced in 1980 and grew to be two powerhouses of the show who drove story for decades.

Yet in 2022, while Victor has a wife, 4 children and numerous grandchildren on the show as well as home and office sets, Jack now has no home or office set, no children or grandchildren on the canvas and only occasional appearances by his sister(s).

Quite a contrast...

I do not like Bill Bell. Brenda has had some not nice things to say about him in her book.

On 1/27/2022 at 12:09 PM, LondonScribe said:

Funnily enough, it wasn’t always like this with Josh Griffith. I thought he steadied the show somewhat in 2008, during the Writer’s Strike, after the mess Lynn Marie Latham made of it  (though parts of that period were a giant nothing burger).

As well as 2012-13 as Head Writer, after Maria Arena Bell/Scott Hamner/Hogan Sheffer took things off the rails. Introducing Hilary, amongst others, and going some way to at least explaining Sharon’s behaviour under Maria Bell, even though I believe he started that paternity switch with Summer, Jack and Nick. I can’t recall. 

And I’m one of seemingly few people who actually liked his very (and I mean VERY) dark take on Days Of Our Lives in 2015-16, though I accept he likely went a couple of steps too far at the end with Hope killing Stefano and Ciara’s rape.

But this 3rd go around with Y&R?… this isn’t it. For all the reasons stated before and more succinctly. 

Sometimes, people lose creative inspiration, or get writers block. I honestly think that is what has happened with Josh Griffith. And maybe that's why everything is in a giant holding pattern.

 

As for the Bill Bell 'debate', no HW is perfect and everybody's cup of tea. It is a question of taste. My personal preference is for Bill Bell's slow, psychologically ambivalent/downbeat, film-noiresque style, but I have loved all kinds of soaps (including Days, GH, Santa Barbara, Sunset Beach, AW, etc).

Even at a cool distance, though, Bill Bell's ability to map out a story (based in part on a character's psychological ticks), play the beats, or develop an umbrella story featuring 3/4 of the cast, was masterful. He also had an eye for picking talented EPs and co-writers. His technical prowess in writing/producing/envisioning a soap's look & feel lifted the genre -- I don't think it is 'biased' or 'stanning' to acknowledge that.

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by Cat

2 hours ago, Cat said:

Even at a cool distance, though, Bill Bell's ability to map out a story (based in part on a character's psychological ticks), play the beats, or develop an umbrella story featuring 3/4 of the cast, was masterful.

Yes! He was so meticulous and thorough in his world-building and characterizations. Dipping into his show was like dipping into another realm. This aimless, haphazard sh!t that JG’s doing can’t compare (for other reasons that you’ve highlighted, like how production further enhanced Bill Bell’s unique world and its almost mythic qualities).

Am I the only one that forgot Moses and Faith were still on the show?

2 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Yes! He was so meticulous and thorough in his world-building and characterizations. Dipping into his show was like dipping into another realm. This aimless, haphazard sh!t that JG’s doing can’t compare (for other reasons that you’ve highlighted, like how production further enhanced Bill Bell’s unique world and its almost mythic qualities).

Exactly this! I was transported to another world watching Y&R where uncertainty, anxiety and shadows lurked on the edges of the WASPy, midwestern privilege it showcased (BTW, wasn't Bill Bell hired by Irna Phillips to write for AW way back in the day?). There is no doubt that Bill and Lee Bell had a very specific world in mind when they created Y&R in 1973.... and when they had to reboot Y&R in 1981 (I think) when the Brooks family mostly left and the Abbotts/Newmans were phased in.... and again when they created B&B in 1987. Despite similar lush production styles and some shared SL tropes, B&B's world felt distinct from Y&R, dreamily soaked in 80s LA sunlight and sensuality. At least to me it felt different.

20 minutes ago, Cat said:

Exactly this! I was transported to another world watching Y&R where uncertainty, anxiety and shadows lurked on the edges of the WASPy, midwestern privilege it showcased (BTW, wasn't Bill Bell hired by Irna Phillips to write for AW way back in the day?).

Yes, they co-created it together and wrote its initial few months/year, but struggled with it.  AW famously only took off because of Agnes Nixon coming onboard. Bill and Irna's collaboration was most felt on ATWT, and DAYS by extension (since Ted Corday produced ATWT before creating DAYS). 

 

 

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by BetterForgotten

26 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Yes, they co-created it together and wrote its initial few months/year, but struggled with it.  AW famously only took off because of Agnes Nixon coming onboard. Bill and Irna's collaboration was most felt on ATWT, and DAYS by extension (since Ted Corday produced ATWT before creating DAYS). 

Thanks! I knew that Bill Bell made his name with Days especially, but couldn't remember the AW details. Interesting that it was Agnes who stabilised AW and took it to the next level. (My core memories of AW are mostly from the 80s and Donna Swajeski years, and of course Harding Lemay's AW work on YouTube).

12 hours ago, Cat said:

Sometimes, people lose creative inspiration, or get writers block. I honestly think that is what has happened with Josh Griffith. And maybe that's why everything is in a giant holding pattern.

I don't know if you are earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year , writer's block is justified.

Many of us have come up with ideas, plot points etc off the top of our heads that could be utilized.

I don't envy Griffith this job in the sense that there seems to be forces at play we aren't privy to.

People are always saying Sony/CBS interference but what plots are they vetoing ? The stuff they approve that gets to air is pretty awful.

The set situation is pretty dire, but doesn't make sense. A bedroom set can be set up for a 3 year old boy, a safe house in Spain that is used for a couple of episodes, an elaborate Tuscan villa ,NY apartment etc but no offices or bedrooms for regular characters.

Josh needs to cut back on the business stories that don't make sense and go for more intimate stories that can be told within the budget framework.

I'm reading comments on other sites how poor Abby is being manipulated by the men around her.

I hate that narrative that always gives grown women a pass for their stupid actions. 

Abby should have told Devon to back off when he started interfering with her family and relationship.

As awful as the whole surrogate plot has been, there were issues that needed to be dealt with. Sure Devon could have feelings for Dom but that could have been addressed differently. He could start talking babies with Amanda and she could not be ready, thus creating conflict.

Instead she's on board with having some kid around the house when she just moved in.