Members Manny Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 Yeah, I feel the same. And while I love MM (Beemer was nothing special back when I watched), I felt like she was also a part of the reason why Belle felt too old. They went from a baby face Kirsten Storms to a mature looking Martha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 Well MM is far too close to Alison Sweeny in age so it is weird. But she looks like John/Marlena and does decent work. Belle is just overall a mess of a character. I know they wanted Shawn/Belle/Phillip to parallel Roman/John/Marlena, but Belle basically comes off wishy-washy because the history was never there for her to bounce back and forth between the two. And John/Marlena still drive story so it's silly for their only biological child to not be on the show full time. Also, they aged Claire way too much even though I truly enjoy Olivia Keegan and she looks spot on to be Belle's kid. Beemer is fine. Nothing special but nothing horrible. That being said I will always prefer Kirsten as Belle and Jason as Shawn so it's a toss up. I would 100% prefer Shawn/Belle to Sarah/Xander and their whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members provocative Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 I think Shawn and Belle are both pretty uninteresting characters on their own but they were "uninteresting" in the way Bo and Hope are and I think they were supposed to be written in that vein - or at least that was the case when they were younger and played by Jason and Kristen. I don't think they would have been written off back in 2007 or whenever if the original actors had still been in the roles despite how underdeveloped the characters are. Aging them so quickly and then aging their kid (though I do also love Claire) have definitely been big problems I think Philip is the most viable character from that group because they bothered with things like flaws and motivation when it came to him. With Shawn and Belle, the writers pretended they had perfect childhoods and perfect parents and obviously stuff like that is detrimental when it comes to creating interesting characters long-term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 Part of the problem has always been Shawn/Belle were endgame before we even knew them. MM has much better chemistry with JkJ. I don't have a problem with Shawn D and Belle having perfect childhoods because it mostly seems like they were raised just fine despite devil possessions, back from the deads, and kidnapping lol. It's not like they were Sami seeing her mom and fake dad banging on a conference room table so I'll allow it. But they do fall into the uninteresting category because they don't have any faults or any true character traits. Phillip is by far the most interesting and viable because he has grey areas in his personality that Shawn/Belle aren't really allowed. And JKJ is a great performer. Claire is the best thing to come out of Belle/Shawn and their relationship. Surprised they didn't give them more kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MichaelGL Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 I felt that over time Shawn/Belle/Philip started to mirror Grandpa Shawn/Caroline/Victor, but perhaps I was just reading too much into the triangle at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 8, 2020 Members Share Posted June 8, 2020 Maybe? I just thought it was an obvious play on Roman/John/Marlena due to the affair being the cause of Belle's conception. Like mother like daughter thing. But again, Belle's motivations weren't as clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members provocative Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 I think I see more of a similarity to Shawn/Caroline/Victor too - one of the things they tried to do with Shawn/Belle/Philip, without much success because the show didn't have any nuance, was have social class be a component. Belle spent her marriage to Philip pining for Shawn and then once they were together the difference between being with someone 'blue collar' and someone who had private jets on demand became more stark. I can't remember if they ever resolved or addressed that tension properly. And now there isn't really any point because I'm pretty sure everyone on Days has access to a private jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 I never thought of it that way. Interesting take. But would it matter to Belle already having access to her Daddy's private plane? John and Marlena are rich. There was never a shortage of money for her. I never truly bought someone like Victor would be that into Caroline so it was never a viable triangle to me even if obviously it's a canon. I really always equated it to Belle being fickle like her mom even though obviously that take has come and gone since Marlena's been with John for years. But I can see your point about Belle being accustomed to a certain lifestyle and Shawn just wasn't providing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members provocative Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 Yeah, that was the thing - she was used to that kind of lifestyle. Her and Philip were of the same class (in so much as Days had some small sense of class structure back then) while Shawn was not because his parents just had regular service jobs. But like I said, this was always something Days would briefly reference and attempted to focus on when she was cheating on Shawn but not with any due diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 I never fully grasped Belle's cheating. I don't feel like they ever gave a true reason for it outside of her mourning her dad's "death" She's never been given the depth Marlena or Sami had. Heck even Carrie. She's always been a good girl with some bad tendencies. Belle's never had any sorta of growth at all. She's good with her family and fine with Shawn but she's almost a blank canvas with her emotions. And we've never had any indication she had a bad childhood except for the fact it kinda was for the first 5-6 years of her life. But the show doesn't say that. I have never even heard Belle talk about the facts of her conception or face it. She must know but the show doesn't even give her that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Belle is blank bc the writing at DOOL is subpar and Martha Madison is the acting equivalent of rice paper. But the affair with Phillip was hot, and why did they need to make it about something else? At the time, based on what was onscreen, I believed it was the oldest reason in the world - she was bored in her marriage, was hot for Phillip and wanted to fućk. The truest motivation soaps too often try to avoid today for dumb puritanical reasons. With the right actors and a better writing team that adult Chloe/Shawn/Belle/Phillip quad could've gone years. Edited June 9, 2020 by Vee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 Lol I think MM is fine. I just think John/Marlena's daughter needs more motivation for an affair than a quick [!@#$%^&*]. She's such an important character that they never developed well. But I don't think they developed Shawn d that well either. Chloe/Mimi/Phillip are much more well rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) They didn't, no. The writing was never there for Shawn or Belle even when Cook and Storms first started - it was always crap. At least Shawn now can be defined by his job. As for Belle, what's so common or unrealistic about her having a profound sexual pull to Phillip as well as complex history, and being bored with her life? It happens to men and women everyday. It happened to John and Marlena, albeit for much more complex emotional reasons, but at core there was always the sexual need as well. There is a reason their defining moment is [!@#$%^&*] on a conference table. Edited June 9, 2020 by Vee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carolineg Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 I mean it's not unrealistic in real life for Belle to do that . But I wish John/Marlena's daughter had more motivation due to her conception and life circumstances. Like go with the flow and make true parallels. John/Marlena had legit reasons for banging. I don't think Belle ever did even if it was hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wendy Posted June 9, 2020 Members Share Posted June 9, 2020 Shawn and Belle, IMO, suffered ever since being pre-destined as teens. It's clear the writers have/had no idea how to write for them once Cook/Storms left. And - to me - Beemer and Madison have no chemistry. And they were tied down with a kid WAY too young. And Martha Madison, who seems like a lovely woman, just seems miscast as Belle. She is too old for the role. Maybe not now with said kid now in her 20s herself (!), which is another mistake as great as Olivia Rose Keegan is, but she was, even when initially cast. Of course, after the disaster that was Charity Rahmer, Madison looked like Meryl Streep. But the point stands. Oddly, as he was born in 1987, Shawn seems to be around the right age. Maybe because the show aged him by small degrees and, so, it did not feel as jarring. (Don't forget, after little Scott Groff came tween Colin O'Donnell before Jason Cook, so his aging seemed almost natural for a soap even if still accelerated.) Long way of saying SORAS screws up EVERYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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