10 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

P&G had a writers' program as late as 2003-2004. I actually toyed with applying. I recall you had to come up with a story bible for characters that were currently on the show. I remember telling a co-worker that I was thinking of applying. She was aghast. "Why would you want to write for a soap opera?" she asked. "They're trash. You're a much better writer than that!!" 

 

In the 1970s, I enrolled in a television writing course in university. I created and wrote a bible for my own soap opera, including the first five scripts. I put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it. I eventually had it evaluated by three different professors, all of whom were kind enough to give me detailed and extensive praise about it. I was thrilled to receive marks of 96% and 95% (twice), and long remarks/notes/suggestions/constructive criticisms on my writing. The entire student body of one of my classes was given my first script to read, and that went over well too. I was ecstatic and humbled when various classmates said, "I can't wait to see what happens next!" I was in heaven!

 

On the other hand, some other people snarked, "Why waste your time on writing a soap opera? They are stupid, written for lethargic housewives who don't want to get out of their bathrobes. And the writing on them is trash!"

 

Pffft.

 

These anti-soap critics obviously knew nothing of the medium. At the time, we had Harding Lemay on AW, Agnes Nixon on AMC, Bill Bell and Pat Falken Smith on DAYS, Henry Slesar on TEON...daytime dramas were at their peak in terms of quality writing!

 

The criticism of today's soaps is justified. No writer working at any modern soap is talented enough to do the job well. But in the 1950s-80s, when the masters were at play, we had marvelous material to watch.

9 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Wow, were you in school at the time?  Were you NYC based?  I mean, ATWT was basically trash by then but I have questions, lol!  ATWT was probably the only soap I ever even considered wanting to write for but it would've been the ATWT of one of the Golden Ages, not the fare of that last decade, which was filled with crap that set my teeth on edge.

 

Really, ATWT was the only soap you wanted to write?

 

As they started to fall apart under incompetent writers and producers, I longed to take over the reigns of MANY soaps. I would make notes on how I would repair the damage done by the hacks, and continue on with (hopefully) better plots, characters and themes.

 

ATWT, TGL, DAYS, OLTL, etc., were all on my radar.

 

When Somerset got axed in 1976, I was so annoyed by its missed opportunities and bungled storylines, I projected a year's worth of material for 1977 (I thought, "It could continue in syndication!" LOL!) and (I think) 10 scripts for January of that year. I think many of us dedicated soap lovers have had similar ideas. I ended up writing original stories and editing other writers' material at a publishing house, but never made it into soaps, alas.

 

My bloated ego assures me I would have been FABULOUS! ROTFLMAO!

 

 

7 hours ago, Antoyne said:

I don’t think they have to wipe out the Rosales clan, but they need to slow their role with them. There have been episodes since I started watching again where it was all about the whole family and that’s way too much too soon.

 

I would like to see Ana do more. And Kerry and Jack surprisingly have chemistry.

 

Traditionally, soap fans have resisted hordes of newbies descending upon the shows and suddenly eating up huge sections of air time.

 

When Katherine Chancellor first appeared on Y&R, I was so invested in the characters I already knew and loved (the Brooks and the Foster families), that I was impatient when I had to sit through scenes of this stranger. I wanted her parts of the episodes to "hurry up and finish" so that could get back to watching Chris and Snapper, Brad and Leslie, etc. 

 

Bill Bell, being the savvy soap god that he was, knew better than to inundate us with Mrs. C five days a week right from the start. He introduced her slowly and sparingly at first, so we didn't instantly resent her and develop negative feelings about how she was taking over the show. By the time Katherine became a lead, we had been allowed to get to know her and become interested in her, and we WANTED to see a lot of her. That's the way to do it. Introduce a new character sparingly, have her interact with other characters whom we care about, and once she feels like part of the canvas, THEN increase her air time. Don't ram her down our throats from the very start because...it will only make us gag.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Really, ATWT was the only soap you wanted to write?

 

Yes, because writing for the theatre was always my main focus. 

For years, I only considered writing teleplays, like the ones aired on programs like PBS' American Playhouse.  Only when I got accepted to a dramatic writing program whose emphasis was intense practice in writing across all media (stage and screen) did I really consider writing for television.  For me, being raised on 1980s ATWT, it seemed very close to theater in the round to me.  

 

I have to be honest and say that I really only considered writing for a soap as a temporary, not a lifelong career goal.  As I began to study how to write, storyboard and shoot scripts and as I delved into writing screenplays, I began to look at broadening my portfolio and I eventually expanded my views on television, especially considering some of the high-quality content on streaming platforms, which seems less bound by the constraints that seem to bind network T.V.

5 hours ago, mikelyons said:

 Televest was running P&G's daytime writer's program by 2007. I applied and was accepted. I kept pestering them for an update of what to do next when I received an email stating they were shutting it down and that was that. It was the same with ABC. They kept the program open, yet they never took on new writers. It was always: "Try again next year. We're giving it a hiatus. We'll be in touch, etc., etc., etc."

The internal way of moving up has been dulled, too. Sara Bibel & Michael Montgomery moved up the ranks internally under Kay's watch in the early-00s which may make them the last holdovers from the Bell era. 

 

Yes, Televest.  Every now and then, I forget and then am reminded that they exist.

Perhaps had I been persistent and called the office more than once in 2001, something may have panned out but it felt like a dead-end to me and so, I didn't pursue it.

Writing for the theater was my goal, I was enrolled in a full-time pre-professional writing program with a school that only accepts 20 students per year, so I really had a laser like focus on, not only completing my M.F.A. but to maintain a high G.P.A., so anything that didn''t seem to go with that goal, I promptly tossed aside.

 

Edited December 19, 20186 yr by DramatistDreamer

6 hours ago, mikelyons said:

Ha! I haven't been interested in spilling said tea.

I was made aware of this just before the news broke, so, yeah. Apparently, all of this went down because Mal couldn't execute Angelica's vision and he was finally let go (She has no vision, but that's neither here nor there). It's a shame really. I don't know what went down when Josh came to Y&R, but something led to Mal firing. Tony Morina has been on the show for 14 years or so and is only now taking creative control of the ship. (John Fisher is Sony's stodge.) Again, even my best sources don't know what happened, but maybe Josh found an opening and pounced. Maybe Josh talked up the Rosales family which touched Angelica's heart. Who knows? The show is in a deplorable state, it looks like it's filmed in a community theatre seat, the actors aren't invested, the blocking is lazy, and it's a damn shame. I was last told Y&R had one of the biggest budgets in TV ($100m per year, cut to about $70m-$80m when JFP came on board - I need to pull my docs from the Sony hack to confirm), so there's no excuse for what we've seen on screen since they fired Maria Arena Bell. However, Steve Kent and Angelica McDaniel are still in control. Until they leave, round in circles we go.     

 

The internal way of moving up has been dulled, too. Sara Bibel & Michael Montgomery moved up the ranks internally under Kay's watch in the early-00s which may make them the last holdovers from the Bell era. 

Thanks. I was just curious at to the timing (the recent post-Moonves CBS drama) and if the allegations surrounding Mal (what Abhi Sinha posted about, Milstein’s exit) had an impact. Of course, that may all be under tight wraps if so. 

 

Sounds like more rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic/business as usual. I just wonder, beyond the Rosaleses, how much of what we saw was McDaniel- or Sony-dictated and how much was MY leaving his mark. As you mentioned, much of the damage to the show’s look and feel preceded Mal by many, many years, so those are decisions higher up, but the claustrophobia really escalated in the last few months. The slapdash pacing and hopscotching of emotional beats are all on Mal, as that was his stated vision, but of course those choices are signed off on.

Edited December 19, 20186 yr by Costello

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 

If Rey were interacting with Paul and time was spent on him and Arturo before any others it may have worked better.

 

 

I think so, too. A new detective is in town, and Paul is showing him the ropes. Perhaps he upstages Paul when it comes to a big case? It actually what I always wanted done with Ignacio Serricchio's character (name escapes me at the moment). He fit into the cast nicely.

I don't have any inside info but seems to me that the execs keep picking someone for these EP/HW roles who can cow tow to those execs and handle the huge personalities behind the scenes (i.e. Braeden and Bergman).  It also seems that they have rotated who gets the power to run the show. CBS/Sony win every once in a while i.e. installing Pratt/Phelps and Bell family has won a few times (Maria Bell, Sussman/Alden).  The choice of Josh Griffith is unreal.  He's like Megan McTavish and Dena Higley all rolled into one. At least with both MM and DH, they achieved some high ratings on their shows in years past.  Griffith has absolutely never been successful as a head writer. He writes dime store novels and is well connected in Hollywood.  No doubt a smart guy. He has the unique distinction of doing more damage in his year plus at Days than Dena did in all her head writing stints.  

 

Why the execs cannot promote a female to each role from with in the YR production family tells me that the very capable women there don't want the role.  Sally MacDonald would probably be a great EP.  

 

 

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Y&R needed a new family and more minority representation,  so on paper the Rosales fit the bill.

 

But basing a family around Arturo ( who hadn't been given much to do and was a fairly bland character) and featuring them while others were leaving wasn't a smart move.

 

If Rey were interacting with Paul and time was spent on him and Arturo before any others it may have worked better.

I've been saying similar for awhile...where is Paul -- he's not even checking in on how the JT case is going with a new detective with GC Police????

10 hours ago, Vee said:

Weren't the Rosales(es) also a passion project for Angelica McDaniel?

 

I heard so. But that might be an assumption. Could have just been on misguided EP's attempt at schmoozing to save his job. 

1 hour ago, RavenWhitney said:

The choice of Josh Griffith is unreal.  He's like Megan McTavish and Dena Higley all rolled into one. At least with both MM and DH, they achieved some high ratings on their shows in years past.  Griffith has absolutely never been successful as a head writer.

 

This is one of the most wrong things you've said in a long history of overconfident wrong posts. Josh Griffith is indeed a terrible hack today, but his work at OLTL in the '90s was more successful than McTavish and Higley put together.

20 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

This is one of the most wrong things you've said in a long history of overconfident wrong posts. Josh Griffith is indeed a terrible hack today, but his work at OLTL in the '90s was more successful than McTavish and Higley put together.

 

The only reason Griffith's work on OLTL was successful was because he was paired with Michael Malone.  Griffith's strength has always been day to day script writing and character based scenes.. but plot was never his strongest suit.  It was why I was hopeful when Higley/Griffith was paired because Higley had great ideas.. she just needed someone to flesh them out so that the story/idea worked for the character instead of making the character work for the story (Her Days stint in 2008/9 caused a spike in their ratings with the Sami/Nicole baby switch and Night Hope made sense given all the repressing Hope was doing of her emotions).

I've seen Malone work alone. Griffith was necessary, lol. He was brought in to make Malone's work manageable for soap format, and he did so, but he didn't stop there.

 

Higley has never been a remotely competent HW. She lucked into a few gimmicks. As a creative she's trash and always has been.

Edited December 19, 20186 yr by Vee

33 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

This is one of the most wrong things you've said in a long history of overconfident wrong posts. Josh Griffith is indeed a terrible hack today, but his work at OLTL in the '90s was more successful than McTavish and Higley put together.

 

Ahh yes, Griffith's epic and memorable turn as sole head writer of OLTL, for a whopping FOUR WEEKS,  from February 3, 2003 - March 7, 2003. 

 

We must never discount or forget THAT staggering achievement. :)

Read the quote again, buddy.

I'm more curious to know why Josh is head writing the show when he came in as a temporary replacement for Lisa de Cazotte (a supervising producer & probably one of Steve Kent's cronies from SANTA BARBARA). Maybe Lisa is coming back & Sony installed Tony as executive producer because being showrunner would be too much for breakdown-prone Josh. I'll poke my sources... 

 

The Rosales family is all Angelica. Don't let her fool you! She installed her friend to oversee Y&R and that friend is out of her depth. Margot Wain is overseeing B&B and PRICE IS RIGHT. Without someone like Margot Wain running interference between Angelica & Y&R, the show will never recover. Maybe this is why B&B has been steadier while Y&R been flung about with no care at all. 

 

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Yes, Televest.  Every now and then, I forget and then am reminded that they exist.

Perhaps had I been persistent and called the office more than once in 2001, something may have panned out but it felt like a dead-end to me and so, I didn't pursue it.

Writing for the theater was my goal, I was enrolled in a full-time pre-professional writing program with a school that only accepts 20 students per year, so I really had a laser like focus on, not only completing my M.F.A. but to maintain a high G.P.A., so anything that didn''t seem to go with that goal, I promptly tossed aside.

 

2

From my own experience of trying to get an internship at AMC in the early-00s, they had zero interest in bringing in someone who wasn't a friend or family member. It seemed like their writing program was the same way. The Sony soaps, which could easily have a writing program if they wanted to invest in the next generation of talent. So could B&B. So could DAYS. At this point, I feel like they don't want to get better, invest in the future, etc. It's sad to see.

 

 

Griffith has never been successful.  Malone was the force behind OLTL success with sweeping stories. Griffith probably helped with pacing, scripts, breakdowns and some story beats.  He's been awful as a sole head and had to be rescued by Malone during his second tenure.  While Dena is a hack, I give her and Quan credit for the first six months after Griffith left in cleaning up the nightmare he left behind.  I never said McTavish was great, but she crafted some very successful stories on AMC (not on GH, OLTL or GL).  Dena lasted three years on OLTL and it was watchable for some of her tenure. Not so with Griffith. He is a horrible choice for Y&R.