14 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Phyliss & Kendall

 

Awww! This is sweet.

On 6/18/2023 at 9:22 AM, te. said:

Mandy and JRs first time was very rapey.

 

We almost need a thread about the whole "Woman overtaken by passion" trope that Dallas and similar soaps often tried to present.

In retrospect, it was a sign of the times that cis male writers would create a fantasy in which one of the privileges of wealth is that every woman swoons to be with a rich guy.  Even if that guy is out of shape with daddy issues and wears a hairpiece with odd microbangs. 

Edited June 21, 20232 yr by j swift

6 hours ago, j swift said:

In retrospect, it was a sign of the times that cis male writers would create a fantasy in which one of the privileges of wealth is that every woman swoons to be with a rich guy.  Even if that guy is out of shape with daddy issues and wears a hairpiece with odd microbangs. 

LOL. And lives with his mother!

5 hours ago, j swift said:

In retrospect, it was a sign of the times that cis male writers would create a fantasy in which one of the privileges of wealth is that every woman swoons to be with a rich guy.  Even if that guy is out of shape with daddy issues and wears a hairpiece with odd microbangs. 

Larry Hagman didn't look like a romantic leading man but he still got much younger (as in 20+ years) love interests.

That's why I was suggesting that it was a fantasy based on 1980s values that money could buy anything, including the attraction of younger women.

To paraphrase Kissinger, power was thought to be the ultimate aphrodisiac

Edited June 22, 20232 yr by j swift

6 hours ago, j swift said:

In retrospect, it was a sign of the times that cis male writers would create a fantasy in which one of the privileges of wealth is that every woman swoons to be with a rich guy.

I don't think it was much of a fantasy then or now. Pretty common to see older, not particularly attractive wealthy men with much younger and prettier wives. 

Donald Trump?

From Psycholgy Today

• When analyzing first marriages, men on the Forbes list marry women about 7 years younger.
• When analyzing second marriages, men on the Forbes list marry women who are on average 22 years younger.

Yeah, richer older men marrying much younger isn't unusual - I guess ultimately, they had these younger women fall head over heels in love with JR without there being a sort of cynical edge to it that was a bit unrealistic. Even the Winger tramp was shown as being truly in love with him, despite being portrayed as a gold digger at first. Then you had naive, sweet, virginal Cally...

In the revival, there was a scene at JR’s funeral with Sue Ellen, Mandy, and Cally talking and agreeing how charming and charismatic he was. I think he was supposed to be one of those people who, when they focus on you, make you feel like you’re the only person in the room. Isn’t Bill Clinton supposed to be like that? It’s an attractive quality to some. And then there were other women on the show who saw right through it: Pamela, Donna, Valene, even Afton eventually.

14 hours ago, kalbir said:

Larry Hagman didn't look like a romantic leading man but he still got much younger (as in 20+ years) love interests.

Like Eric Braeden (Victor) on Y&R. He was already in his 40's when he joined Y&R and his first wife Julia was about 10 years younger than him. I think Nikki was about 15 years younger then they all got younger as time went on. 

9 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

In the revival, there was a scene at JR’s funeral with Sue Ellen, Mandy, and Cally talking and agreeing how charming and charismatic he was. I think he was supposed to be one of those people who, when they focus on you, make you feel like you’re the only person in the room. Isn’t Bill Clinton supposed to be like that? It’s an attractive quality to some. And then there were other women on the show who saw right through it: Pamela, Donna, Valene, even Afton eventually.

Speaking of.. Deborah Shelton looked so beautiful and regal during her return. 

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

Speaking of.. Deborah Shelton looked so beautiful and regal during her return. 

She was always a beauty. She was Miss U.S.A. 1970. Victoria Principal was also on the beauty pageant circuit at that time. She was Miss Miami 1969. 

 

God, season 11 is really awful, despite not necessarily needing to be - technically, the Ewings losing Ewing Oil and having to rebuild is a decent storyline, but it's handled... so odd. And all of a sudden we have an appearance by a madam and AIDS reference (topical!). Cliff's storyline with Dandy Dandridge is just furthering his decent into comedyville - I get where they were going with it (breaking Cliff's illusion about Digger), but it just doesn't work especially as I don't recall Cliff really changing (mostly because Dallas is allergic to change unless it's forced upon them as VP's departure).

Obviously, Pam's departure because she's so vain (a dig at VP?) is awful no matter how you look at it - funnily enough, unlike when Bobby died, the Pam effect was actually instant on the ratings, giving them a low season premiere with the episode where "Pam" takes off her bandages and disappears as the highest rated episode of the season. Even if they had pulled it together and written a decent season I feel like the ratings would've plummeted regardless, but maybe they at least would've stayed stable in the lower top 20 for a while.

Descent? I feel like Cliff has been little more than a cross between an Andy Griffith Show character and an anime pervert since at least the fourth or fifth season. Granted I've been bingeing and skipping around a lot.

Edited June 25, 20232 yr by Vee

2 minutes ago, te. said:

the Pam effect was actually instant on the ratings, giving them a low season premiere with the episode where "Pam" takes off her bandages and disappears as the highest rated episode of the season. Even if they had pulled it together and written a decent season I feel like the ratings would've plummeted regardless, but maybe they at least would've stayed stable in the lower top 20 for a while.

1987/88 CBS entire primetime lineup tanked, not just Dallas. With the exception of Murder, She Wrote, the rest of CBS drama lineup was either aging or not showing growth plus CBS had no big hit sitcoms while NBC was killing it with sitcoms and ABC was saved by its Tuesday lineup, World Series, Super Bowl, Winter Olympics.

CBS primetime soaps all started going off the rails that season. Dallas in the aftermath of Pamela's disappearance. Knots Landing in the aftermath of Laura's departure. Falcon Crest I can't pinpoint exactly but the core families shrunk and the supporting characters and guest stars in short arcs didn't really work. They were all creatively exhausted by the end of the season and if they had all ended Spring 1988, we would have been spared the off the rails plus budget mode era.

When Victoria left, Dallas as we knew it - the Ewings vs the Barnes - was over. They needed a new setup. Instead, they just tried to keep going with a Pamela-sized hole in the show. And then you had the adventures of Ray, Jenna, and Charlie sucking the life out of the show whenever those character appeared, which was far too often.