Dallas: Discussion Thread

[GLATWT88]

It would have been an interesting dynamic to explore.

When I think of that The Movie Villain/The Actual Villain meme - I always see JR as the series villain, but Cliff as the actual villain.

JR is blindly motivated by his love for Ewing Oil and what it means to his family. Sure, he does some questionable and awful things but at his core he really does care about his family. Meanwhile, Cliff seems willing to screw anyone over if it means defeating JR. 

 

 

Wow, thank you! I love this and I have to say I agree. I was really surprised by the manner Kit's coming out was handled. 

[Khan]

I never understood why Cliff hated J.R. so much other than his daddy told him and his sister that J.R. and Bobby's daddy took his woman and screwed him out of a fortune when they were wildcatters.  Unless I missed something, I felt like Cliff and J.R.'s feud needed to be more personal than that.

[j swift]

My interpretation is that Cliff was motivated by personal jealousy rather than avarice or greed.  JR always wanted to please his Momma and get approval from his Daddy, whom he feared preferred Bobby.    But, Cliff never had a Momma, nor a Daddy whose opinion mattered because Jock "stole" Miss Ellis from Digger.  Therefore, he yearned for everything that the Ewings had in terms of being a family and if he couldn't have it, he wanted to destroy their happiness.

Later, when Rebecca dies helping Cliff try to beat the Ewings, it drove Cliff insane because the family that he always dreamed of is destroyed due to his obsession.

Edited June 4, 2023 by j swift

[Chris B]

JR I found to be someone who took pleasure in victimizing other people. With Cliff, his biggest victim was himself.  He let his anger at the Ewing’s completely destroy his life. 

[kalbir]

Did Cliff ever have a genuine love? Maybe Afton. IIRC he too was alone at the end of the original series.

[te.]

Well, you know, except for all those times he tried to literally destroy Gary, Bobby and their wives.

[GLATWT88]

Haha. Well yes, I'm not sure why he disliked Gary so much. But he was fiercely protective of his mother and she was pretty much the only one he respected. Then of course his son. The Dream Season did start to build this more tender side of JR - one who truly loved his family even Sue Ellen, but that all disappeared. 

There were many things wrong with JR...

I believe he truly loved Sue Ellen, but he just couldn't be faithful. I hated how he pushed the bottle on her and used it against her. I thought that was absolutely disgusting. However, there are many times where you did see honest love between the two. He unfortunately expected too much from Sue Ellen and wanted her to accept his infidelity and sit by and play the role of loving wife.

Cliff and Afton were great, only because Afton called Cliff on his [!@#$%^&*]. I truly loved the way Afton's character evolved in the series. Cliff used Afton and while he may have eventually developed feelings for her, he never gave her what she wanted or needed because he was always so consumed by his feud with the Ewings. He also threw her sleeping with some guy (can't recall the name) in her face even though it was Cliff's idea. Cliff was selfish and always thought of himself and was entirely consumed by his hatred for the Ewings. Same with Jamie. He completely used her and married to use for his advantage. 

JR was a ruthless business man and he had many flaws. I feel like his relationship with Bobby was tense, because he believed he should run Ewing Oil alone. He knew that he wasn't Jocks favorite and going into those oil fields and running the business were his way of getting his father's love and acceptance. That's why he fought so hard for it. 

[Chris 2]

Afton was pretty effective as a Greek chorus even though the actress herself didn’t have a lot of range.

The second half of the series should have focused on JR’s redemption. Not that he would have become some nice guy pushover, but he should have followed the same arc as Jock. That would have been better than JR becoming a loser, played for laughs.

[te.]

JR was afraid of Gary because he was unpredictable and he couldn't control him; if Gary actually ever got his [!@#$%^&*] together he felt like he would be a force to be reckoned with. Hence why he wanted Gary out and away from Southfork. He even said as much. In comparison, Bobby was predictable and he could calculate his moves.

So much he mortaged her beloved Southfork in a risky deal and constantly tried to chase away her two other sons

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I think people confuse Larry and Linda's chemistry with JR and Sue Ellen loving each other; I don't think JR was capable of love. If anything it seemed more like both very obsessively possessive and couldn't stand the thought of the other finding happiness elsewhere. They were by all accounts a toxic couple and in real life you'd probably want them both as far away from each other as possible. Sue Ellen was the wife JR deserved though. 

 

I've always said that there's two ways to end the series - either with JR getting everything he thinks he wants - ie Ewing Oil and dominance in business, but his personal life ends up wrecked because of it and ultimately ends up alone on top. Or he loses Ewing Oil, but finds personal happiness. But he can't have both. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by te.

[DRW50]

I thought the whole ugly episode with JR exposing that his girlfriend died during a botched abortion was reason enough, although probably not for so many years (unfortunately I thought most of the writing lost any dimension after a few seasons anyway).

[GLATWT88]

I feel like that's where they were headed with the Dream season. It seemed like JR was finally realizing he wanted a family with Sue Ellen and John Ross. Of course, Sue Ellen after the explosion would have been a real test to JR's motives. Upon it being a dream, they were right back to the end of season 8 and there was no way they would rehash JR coming to the same realization. 

 

[Soapsuds]

Dallas sure screwed it up..lol

Watching Knots Landing and Gary is grieving over Bobby's death. Val tells Gary she's naming her son Bobby.

Did Pam dream that too or did Gary dream it?..lol

Of course when Val went missing it wasn't even mentioned on Dallas.

And when Gary was facing murder charges no one bothered to come to his trail from Dallas.

All we got was Abby telling Mrs. Ewing on the phone not to worry about Gary. That it was blown way out of proportion by the media. What???..lol

Edited June 6, 2023 by Soapsuds

[kalbir]

Because of it was all a dream?

[AbcNbc247]

Not to mention the parallel they tried to draw between Gary losing Bobby and Val losing Joshua. 

And, agreed that there should have been crossovers between Dallas and Knots. Lucy never even met her brother and sister. Or her other grandmother

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[SoapDope]

Not only did Dallas screw it up, we got Patrick Duffy and Larry Hagman to thank. Patrick insisted Bobby be killed off on camera. They asked him are you sure " Yes, I have no intention of ever coming back".....then Larry pissed and moaned that he didn't have his playmate he could cut up with and wanted things back to the boys club behind the scenes that he was accustomed to. 

I wish they had told Patrick " Sorry, we have moved on and you should to. Good luck finding work".....I think Larry threatened to quit the show and that's why they catered to his demands. Victoria/Pam/the show became a laughing stock after that and she eventually walked away because of the decline of the writing and the show.