Yes, Season 2 has been plagued by some bad story decisions, some bad scripting and some bad acting. But then there are marvelous moments of sheer talent with the intersection of music and plot and character. So far the weakest episode was this most recent one as written/directed by creator Danny Strong. It was embarrassingly overdramatic.  Andre crumpled on the floor.  Too much.  Lucious screaming and breaking down to Cookie, the gun.  Too over the top and cheesy.  When they focus on Cookie and branch out from the music biz plot they have gold.  Cookie and her sister's search for the drugged out sister was great as were the prison concert scenes.  The actor playing Hakeim can't carry the material they give him and his bevy of women strains all dramatic license.  Naomi Lurch Campbell is not fun to watch at all; she's not an actress; she's a strange looking model.  Give me more Cookie family history, more Portia.  And stop with Gabby S.  She can't act.  I don't care if she rocked in Precious.  She stinks on this show.   They need some seasoned writers to come in and help with story.  They are in danger of making a mockery of their own success.  Some of the costumes have been too over the top. I get it that they want to be fabulous but reign it in just a lil and it'll be more compelling and fun.  I still watch because the talent on the show is astounding overall. 

I have to agree about the avtpr that plays Hakeem. Maybe if he was more mature looking I'd buy him having a harem of women. But as such, I can't imagine anyone but Princesa and Tiana fighting over him. Camilla and kitty? Never. 

Black people are still more socially conservative than the public as a whole when it comes to homosexuality.

No.

Most of the North Carolina and Mississippi politicians who just passed draconian laws against LGBT people are NOT Black.

Which President enacted Don't Ask, Don't Tell & DOMA and under which President were they rendered unconstitutional?

So the assertion that Black people are more "socially conservative" about homosexuality than the public as a whole is baseless at best.

White gay men do not have the same issues as black gay men.

White gay men don't have issues about what it means to be a man and being masculine?

You've got to be kidding.

The context of the issues may be different but the problems are the same.

If anything, Jamal's fluidity story was the show runners using the character to teach/educate about sexuality. After all, the show did have very high HH share for black viewers last season when Jamal was ONLY into men and having sex onscreen. If anything, they'd stop watching over the anti-God/religion themes running through the show versus Jamal kissing boys 

Right? The most joyful moment of the first season was Jamal's coming out at the white party!

If anything critics and viewers have had more issues with Empire's handling of mental health issues than gayness or religion.

Ma'am. You purposely left out when I said there was a stigma from racist stereotypes about black masculinity that shape the way black gay men are viewed by others in society black, white, or otherwise. If you're going to quote or comment what I said quote all of it. I didn't say white gay men don't have issues with being considered masculine. I just presented the fact that there is intersectionality and a host of stereotypes that white gay men do not have to deal with. Period.

Edited April 2, 20169 yr by Eric83

The sexual fluidity thing feels like a cop-out. It feels like a cop-out because there was such an emphasis on Jamal and his sexuality. It would be different if they showed us his struggle as a sexually fluid young man, but they showed us his struggle as a gay man. It feels hollow to me. And I didn't care much for Alicia Keys and didn't see the chemistry. I just can't see them running scared, so what is it? Lee Daniels still uncomfortable with himself and projecting? Chaiken being an idiot?

 

Andre and Rhonda are still treated like afterthoughts as is Anika, who I doubt pushed Rhonda. She's a red herring IMO. Maybe Camilla wants there to only be Hakeem's heir. I wonder how long they'll keep Anika around. Grace Gealey is being totally wasted.

 

Obnoxious Hakeem. Ugh. It's a crutch they keep going back to but I like that he actually seems to have some conflict.

 

It was a better episode and the focus was a bit better but it still has some work to do. They were building towards things in Season 1. They just aren't doing that this time. There are no real stakes. Things change every episode but nothing really does. I'm just not getting what they're trying to accomplish.

Edited April 2, 20169 yr by KMan101

I do agree that black gay men have a special journey.

Right but misogyny is colorless.

It infects gay white men as much as it does gay black men

The only thing that is different is the context.

This show has lost it's edge and I use that word in the loosest form.

These songs are just a no and WTF was Flip Flop Flippity Flop? But I was cackling at that scene.

THe best part of  this episode for me were literally the final moments. I did think that whoever was watching Camilla was holding a gun and I loved that it was Lucious. I could not stop laughing at his speech to her and him going on about how he now has to call Mimi's family and that she'll have to face them in court.  He should have made sure she died!

Oh god, please do not add Tiana back in that orbit because I can't do another go round with them two.

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

The show dipped in the ratings in HH's and demos….dropped from a 4.7 to a 4.2 in demos….

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

EXACTLY Toups! Like WTF?! I'm sure Marisa would have come back to play off of what was happening even though they had Mimi acting like a damn fool towards the end I still wanted some payoff and everything happened in the span of one episode like there was no buildup or anything. I pray for S3 they learn what went wrong in the sophomore slump and pull it together or no matter what magic and phenomenon they had in S1 people aren't going to be tuning in.

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

EXACTLY Toups! Like WTF?! I'm sure Marisa would have come back to play off of what was happening even though they had Mimi acting like a damn fool towards the end I still wanted some payoff and everything happened in the span of one episode like there was no buildup or anything. I pray for S3 they learn what went wrong in the sophomore slump and pull it together or no matter what magic and phenomenon they had in S1 people aren't going to be tuning in.

There still doing some of the same rushed plot point writing they were doing in S1. Its more noticeable now that its season 2 and there's more episodes.

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

to be fair, thats consistent with how the show has been written since day 1. Lee Daniel has always left out key scenes in this show. IA, that we needed to at least see Mimi confront Camilla

I just watched the latest episode. This show has really gone down hill.

 

Naomi Campbell was great fun as Camilla. I wonder if she actually died - but I doubt I'll be tuning in to find out...

I saw that Ilene Chaiken responded to the "dead lesbian" controversy by saying they weren't actually lesbians so it didn't count. 

 

I have to admit her comment did make me laugh. I haven't seen that type of furore over this anyway so I doubt many cared.

Edited April 10, 20169 yr by DRW50

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

EXACTLY Toups! Like WTF?! I'm sure Marisa would have come back to play off of what was happening even though they had Mimi acting like a damn fool towards the end I still wanted some payoff and everything happened in the span of one episode like there was no buildup or anything. I pray for S3 they learn what went wrong in the sophomore slump and pull it together or no matter what magic and phenomenon they had in S1 people aren't going to be tuning in.

I have to believe that Marisa wasn't available. They wouldn't have done something so ridiculous if Tomei had been available.

The ending of this Camilla/Mimi takeover was terrible because it all happened in one scene!  We didn't see Mimi react to the video. We didn't see Camilla kill Mimi and we didn't see Lucious taping the whole thing.  This show has gone downhill so fast. 

EXACTLY Toups! Like WTF?! I'm sure Marisa would have come back to play off of what was happening even though they had Mimi acting like a damn fool towards the end I still wanted some payoff and everything happened in the span of one episode like there was no buildup or anything. I pray for S3 they learn what went wrong in the sophomore slump and pull it together or no matter what magic and phenomenon they had in S1 people aren't going to be tuning in.

I have to believe that Marisa wasn't available. They wouldn't have done something so ridiculous if Tomei had been available.