Empire: Discussion Thread

[ajsp35801]

The show is not homophobic IMO. Quite the opposite. None of the gay characters are cliched caricatures or demonized! That would be homophobic writing. The central character, Jamal, is one of the most rootable characters I have seen in a while. He's fully fleshed out and he is human. It's impossible not to care about him. I think some who are homophbic that watched it will resent this. They are rooting for him and they don't like it.

That war was about race. Not sexuality.

Edited January 9, 2015 by ajsp35801

[ReddFoxx]

Daniels wanted Wesley Snipes as Lucious, but production couldn't cut a deal. I'm actually glad about that, since I think Howard is better actor and fits well in the role.

[Vee]

He's a great actor when motivated, but I haven't seen Wesley play anything other than Blade in at least a decade. Some stories suggest the dude may actually think he is Blade at this point.

Terrence Howard, like Wesley, is insane IRL but he is also a great actor.

[NothinButAttitude]

*gasps*

Seriously?!! I think that Wesley would've been better. More sadistic/frightening. Yes, it would've been like he was playing Nino Brown [again], but Wesley would've brought it. While I think Terrence can [and probably will] bring it, Wesley would've ate this role alive. I would actually believe he is capable of going toe to toe with Taraji.

[YRBB]

Howard was Taraji's demand. She said she wouldn't do the show if he wasn't cast as Lucious (and that was before they even hired her!)

[DeeeDee]

As good as Terence Howard is he's not as committed to Lucious as Taraji is to Cookie and it shows.

Howard's Lucious comes off like a stock character going through the motions whereas Taraji's Cookie is a highly flawed yet very realistic character one can't help but love.

[ajsp35801]

Oh my! This is some tea! I didn't know that about Taraji using her accepting the role as leverage to get Terrence hired. They must be great friends and she enjoys working with. Wow. Way to flex that muscle.

I can't picture Wesley in the role. Terrence brings some compassion to the role. I can't imagine Wesley doing that. I would have hated Lucious with a passion with him in the role and longed for his death. I care about him as played by Terrence.

[ReddFoxx]

Snipes could have been more menacing, but Howard can be too, when Lucious shot his friend, that was fairly chilling. Of course I've seen more of Howard's work than I have of Snipes, but I still lean toward Howard's acting style.

[Vee]

Frankly I think Howard probably could've used the job. He aced himself out of the Marvel movies and was not getting the greatest film parts.

I think he's doing a fine job. No, it's not as visceral a part as Henson's out of the gate but he is good at what he's given.

[ajsp35801]

I think Cookie is a very high energy character whereas Lucious seems designed as more of a laid back smooth kind of guy. I saw flashes of great with Terrence as well. Either way, I think that this performances might improve. In the season preview, that scene with Lucious arguing with Jamal seems like it will be a doozy.

[DeeeDee]

Lucious should have very clear relationships with his children but the majority of the background the audience has about how he feels about them is mainly plot dependent.

From the moment Cookie interacts with all three of their sons there's heavy subtext there (largely because of Taraji's acting).

If someone were asked to describe Lucious feelings about Andre they'd have to read from a plot summary because the brief scene they had at the gym revealed nothing of their relationship.

Contrast that to Andre's brief scene with Cookie who is clearly proud of her son's achievements, amusingly frank about his wife & hesitant because she isn't sure if he resents her for not being there.

Edited January 9, 2015 by DeeeDee

[Vee]

So yeah, upon viewing, I don't see anything remotely homophobic about this show. If anything it sides heavily with Jamal, and Cookie endorses that wholeheartedly the minute she arrives back on the scene. As for the audience, I think a case can be made for the majority of them being with Cookie - and that makes them be with Jamal, and they begin to reconcile that.

if it's causing an uproar among a sub-segment of the audience, good. Go for it. It's a conversation worth having. It was a surprisingly strong pilot for a show i expected to be superfcial fluff - it's still a OTT primetime soap, but it has real meat on the bone. I'm in.

As for the character relationships, I think they accomplished a lot in under an hour. We'll know more about how Lucious sees his eldest son in time, I'm sure. I got a clear take on how he sees the others.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Vee

[Mr. Vixen]

I just watched. Wow, I absolutely loved it.

First and foremost, Taraji is my religion. This woman is perfect.

That trash can scene gutted me. Such real, emotional stuff.

Jamal is my favorite son. I already can tell I will (love to) hate Andre and his "white bitch" wife, lol.

Loved Gabby, too.

I'm really excited for Naomi Campbell and Courtney Love.

Did y'all know Raven Symone has a recurring role on this show? I cannot WAIT for that.

[DaytimeFan]

I just loved the premiere, it was everything I wanted it to be: this is the Dynasty of hip hop. The production values scream money, the writing was sharp, the language pushed the envelope and Taraji P Henson blew in guns blazing, within the first episode she has joined Alexis, Abby, Sue Ellen and Amanda as one of the most iconic women in prime time soap opera. She was incredible: the lines, the movement, the attitude, she reminded me so much of what Dynasty director Irving J Moore said of Joan Collins: "I have never seen anyone interact with props like she does, she can balance a cape, a martini glass, a cigarette, a hat and sunglasses all while walking backwards and in high heels, she knows how to move!"

The trash can scene was harrowing, heartbreaking, shocking. It was also brilliant because it said a lot about Cookie, Luscious and Jamal. It will likely inform the rest of the series.

I also think the recurring performers, namely Gabourey Sidibe, Naomi Campbell and Courtney Love, are going to be off the chain! The casting on this show is fabulous and Triple A List.

I hope the ratings can stay strong, I thoroughly enjoyed this show.

[Mr. Vixen]

Off topic, but I'm so glad that Gabby Sidibe has made such a great career for herself. So many people said she would never act again or get cast in anything mainstream, but with well received arcs on "AHS", "The Big C" and now, presumably, this show, she really has proved them wrong.