I don't know if I told you guys, but I bought the first two seasons on DVD. I haven't watched them yet because I have so many other shows to catch up with right now, but I'm thinking of alternating discs between Shameless, Dynasty, and PLL. I'm really eager to start this again, because I really did love it when I saw it a few months ago.

I don't know if I told you guys, but I bought the first two seasons on DVD. I haven't watched them yet because I have so many other shows to catch up with right now, but I'm thinking of alternating discs between Shameless, Dynasty, and PLL. I'm really eager to start this again, because I really did love it when I saw it a few months ago.

Hurry up, trick! Season 4 starts in January!

I don't know if I told you guys, but I bought the first two seasons on DVD. I haven't watched them yet because I have so many other shows to catch up with right now, but I'm thinking of alternating discs between Shameless, Dynasty, and PLL. I'm really eager to start this again, because I really did love it when I saw it a few months ago.

It's really good stuff!

S4 BTS

http://www.etonline.com/tv/140010_Shameless_Season_4_Exclusive_Video/index.html

I finally started, and I pretty much blasted through the first two discs of season 1 immediately. If I could, I'd still be watching right now. I've seen #1-#8 so far, so here are some thoughts:

~ I basically love every single character on the show, except for

~ FRANK. I hate him. Of course, he's needed for the rest of the show to work, and he's a necessary evil, basically, but I still can't stand his freaking guts. And I get that he's SUPPOSED to make me feel this way, but still...ugh. I hate him. Some times I do chuckle at some of the things he says, but he's truly scum.

~ Fiona annoys me as well sometimes. She's so consumed with a pride that I really don't understand, and it boggles my mind that she just enables Frank's behavior by picking up his slack constantly. It's sad.

~ I'm so disappointed in Steve for being a lying sack of sh!t, but we've only just figured this out, so I'm willing to see where this thing with his secret family goes.

~ Kev and Veronica are PERFECT. Perfect chemistry, and I've loved all of their stories so far.

~ Lip and Ian are probably my favorite characters on the whole show, though I guess they and Kev/Veronica are collectively my faves. I love their sibling relationship, and I like both as individual characters. I'm interested in seeing where Lip's story goes now that it's picking up, and of course, Ian needs to dump Kash's sad ass. Mickey's gross, so I'm not shipping that, but it's the better alternative. The writing for the teens on this show is great.

~ Sheila is PHENOMENAL! Joan Cusack deserves her Emmy noms and should have won at some point. The episode where she babysits Liam and finally goes outside almost made me cry. Really nothing else to say other than I didn't originally think she'd be such an important part of the show.

~ The kids. I love that the kids are being developed instead of just being there to add to the background. Debbie is such a great character, and she's provided a lot of LOL moments for me. In the last ep I watched, where Frank tries to be sober to get paid $3,000, Lip tries to explain to her how Frank being sober is only a temporary thing, and the writers almost made it seem like Debbie was just as naive as Carl about it, and I was like "She's not that naive, though..." and then BOOM, she very calmly and maturely expressed that she knew exactly what was going on but was choosing to just enjoy it while it lasted. I love this character.

I really like that they're emphasizing the episodic nature of these episodes. There are continuing storylines, but it's sorta early Knots/Dallas in that we're really taking time out to learn the characters in these episode plots before we're expected to care in more long-term stories. I don't know how long this lasts, but it works.

I'm heading out to buy the 3rd season today because I really think I can get through all of it in time to find a way to illegally stream the 4th season.

Edited November 21, 201312 yr by All My Shadows

I agree that Sheila is amazing. She has had many scenes that nearly made me cry.

I can't wait for season 4. I keep Showtime year round just so that I can watch this show anytime I want On Demand.

I love how none of you told me that season 3 hasn't been released on DVD yet lol I'm getting it ASAP on Tuesday, I will even pay full-price if I have to. I'm halfway through the second season, and I'm seriously about to binge 3 episodes now and probably the rest tomorrow. I CAN NOT DEAL WITH A WAIT.

I'm starting to see some subtle changes in the show that I'm not too crazy about. The first season was very much about the whole family and the little relationships between various Gallaghers and how their storylines intersected. A lot of that is still there (Lip/Ian is still amazing, as is Debbie/Fiona), but with the summer setting, there's more space between the Gallaghers. I guess that's to be expected because it is indeed summer, but I miss the dynamics of the whole family together. The stories are very segmented now, and it's more of a traditional soap in that we just jump from story to story back to story etc.

Nevertheless, I am still obsessed!

The Monica two-parter in S1 was riveting from beginning to end. Loved EVERYTHING about it, even though I so, so hated how the kids were so horrible to Monica but so often give Frank a pass. Monica may have deserted them, but Frank constantly uses them and puts them in danger. It's sick how loyal they are to him and his antics. Everyone is his enabler, and I hate the sack of sh!t like there's no tomorrow. WHM is an incredible actor, though, and he makes it work. Hated Frank taking advantage of Dottie.

Louise Fletcher is KILLING IT as Grammy, even though I hate her hood rat ass too. I dislike how Grammy is meant to make us feel sorry for Frank.

I take back my brief blurb about Mickey! I'm ALL about dat Ian/Mickey life now! I'm starting to see changes in Mickey via his sexual relationship with Ian, and he's getting to be just a tiny smidge vulnerable. Their before/after sex banter is hilarious, and very real. Mickey's violence towards Ian has turned into more of an ambivalence, like he's okay with Ian clearly caring about him. I've fallen completely in love with Noel Fisher, too. He does a lot with the character. I SO loved the early S2 Lip/Mandy/Ian scenes. SO realistic, and very British soapish. I didn't notice Mandy was recast, to be honest, until I noticed Emma Greenwell's name in the credits and looked up to see who she played. Mandy has been so tertiary, it really hasn't made a difference to me.

Karen's gone to some weird places. I like her S2 (she went overboard at the end of the first season), and I like the thing with Jody. The scene where she beats the [!@#$%^&*] out of Lip and reveals her pregnancy was one of this show's signatures, IMO. LSW is fantastic when they give her good stuff to play. Jody is so weird but HOT.

Fiona...eh. She continues to annoy me at times, but I generally like her and root for her. So glad she got her ass checked for stealing from the woman's purse AND sexing Craig. I still can't get over the fact that she went to high school and still didn't know what PowerPoint was (and neither did Veronica, the Chaturbate queen?). I couldn't really care less about Fi's various men, but Steve's absence was felt in the early eps of S2. I still like Steve, even though he's an ass, and I want it to work out.

The Ethel storyline is another one of those things that I didn't think would be a big thing but became so very significant to my enjoyment of the show! LOL at Kev and V being all nice and proper with the adoption agency woman who ended up being ghetto as hell. Ethel and Debbie's friendship is one of my fave parts of the show, as is the whole Kev/V/Ethel set-up. I feel bad for thinking two 14-year-olds raising their kids together is cute, but Ethel and Malik are Debbie running the day care is EVERYTHING. She was merely the precocious (but not sickeningly so) girl in S1, but they grew her out of that in the second season to be more independent and self-sufficient. Loving the development of this one-of-a-kind character.

Lip...sigh. He's still my #1 character on the show, but he's f!cking up too much. When he peed on Frank, I was SO HAPPY! But now he's being a creeper behind Karen and has gone back to enabling Frank. He's gotten so cynical and bitter, and it's not a good look for him.

The show's cinematic beauty is such an unexpected surprise. The difference between those harsh winter episodes and these bright and sunny summer eps is so spectacular, and it totally changes the feel of the show in so many ways.

I'm 100% sure I'll be all caught up by S4's premiere, which is so unusual for me because I'm still at the beginning of season 2 of PLL after like a year and a half of watching, same with Walking Dead. This show is just so different, though! It's literally everything I've been looking for.

I started S3 last night! Watched the first two episodes so far. Yall, this will be the FIRST time I've ever started a show and caught up completely in time for the newest season. I can't help it, Shameless is the type of show I could watch all day, even though later season 2 and season 3 aren't as good as the first season and a half. Still an awesome show.

Kevin's new body...damn! Guy was fat last season and now he has abs. Besides what happened to his leg?

Ugh to Sheila still being with that freak. I wish we were done with him.

Debbie running through the house yelling for her daddy. Girl, he's a sperm downer, not your daddy! I cant beelvie she's so hung up on Frank bc she is so sensible and knows he is BS

Why does Steve's father law want the wife's bf dead? I cant remember. Chopping up the body was so bizarre and the girl was right there watching

Fiona's job? NASTY! I couldnt do that ish. She should be thankful she was let go

I cant stand Frank. He's such a PoS. He is in all these comedic hijinks and we are supposed to laugh at him but I dont find him amusing.

Not only is Ian still sleeping with Steve's dad, the old man is tutoring with his math homework....I cant! Kinda twisted, but if the cards were to line up perfectly for everyone, Ian could be Fiona's father in law

I love Sheila, but now that Karen's gone (for now, at least) and Frank isn't with her anymore, I don't see why she and Jody are still a part of the show and why Jody's in the opening credits now. Their scenes are just so out of place, which is sad, because I loved Sheila and Karen's dynamics with the family early on.

Debbie ANNOYED THE SH!T OUT OF ME in the first episode. I don't understand where this extreme loyalty to Frank randomly came from. The only connection I can make is that she was traumatized by Monica cutting herself on Thanksgiving and so she's afraid of something happening to Frank. But yeah, she should know better. She's been shown to be so much wiser than that.

The Marco murder scene was brutal, and I really don't understand why we had to see that or why this storyline is even running. Mob stories are so rarely necessary, period, but even less so on this show.

Frank is still sh!t, I totally agree.

Ian got fine.

That bartender girl said it best. I don't think Frank has had a lower moment than he had in this episode. I couldn't believe he called CPS on the kids. [!@#$%].

I really, really hope that Mickey ends up giving Ian "the look" at some point. Good story so far. LOL @ Ian f'ing w/that Asian guy at school. "Pound me like an Iraqi soldier"

My heart broke so much for Debbie when Frank broke her log cabin project. That was a powerful scene. This show really knows how to execute moments like that. Breathtaking.

Words can't describe how much I can't stand what the show has done to the Mandy character. She's disgusting and the Actress SUCKS, bad.

That was a devastating moment with Fiona having to give all the money she racked up away.

Kev has a wife? Not really a fan of that twist. I really could've done without another obstacle like that thrown at him & Veronica.

Steve/Jimmy's story is such a fail. I would've preferred they explore his relationship with his parents more and have that lead up to him finding out his dad's been f'ing with Ian!

Bruh, Frank calling CPS on the kids was such a sheisty ass move, I can't! But that's the kind of thing I like to see on this show.

Mickey/Ian are my SH!T!!! "Dafuqa'ulookinat?" needs to be Mickey's catchphrase. Ian must be packin' for him to constantly be the top in all of these sexual relations.

Debbie beating the crap out of Frank with the soap was AMAZING. I loved the whole family banding together to fight against him, but I kept waiting for someone to just hit him, and I'm so glad it was Debbie! Loved her wanting to be left alone. That whole scene was awesome, but damn, the way they portray the kids with Frank is so inconsistent. Sometimes they just laugh him off because they're used to it, and they let him get his way, but then other times, they intensely hate him. I kinda get the fluctuation because sometimes his antics are easier to ignore than at other times, but still, they need to stand up to him once and for all. Ian is really the only one who consistently calls Frank on his sh!t.

I really don't mind Mandy. Now that I've gone and rewatched some early episodes, I do prefer the first Mandy, but I like Mandy's role in Lip's story right now. He's being a total !@#$%^&*]. Used to be my #1 fave character on the show, but he's gotten so obnoxious and desperate to be a hood rat. The guidance counselor (or was it the university guy?) who told him that his future would suck if he continues on his current path was totally right. Even worse, he'll become Frank. I'm glad that Mandy is trying to get him to continue his education.

I HATE the Steve/Jimmy story. I love Steve/Jimmy, and I love the dynamics of him as househusband at the Gallagher home, taking care of the kids, baking, and what-not, but the mob story needs to go. I'd much rather see his family come into the show and interact with the various characters. They really can't just waste Julia Duffy.

I'm probably gonna just go back and reply to yall's comments on the end of S2 lol I just have to add all my thoughts. Can't wait for the fourth season! I'm gonna miss seeing Steve/Jimmy's ass in the opening credits, though

Edited December 26, 201311 yr by All My Shadows

Great analysis of the show Cheap. I agree with most of what you said. Love your banner and avatar as always

Sheila vs. Monica was made of win. Team Sheila! I loved their screaming match as well Joan Cusack as Sheila is just plain brilliant. I actually enjoyed her more in the 1st season for some reason, but I did love how more layers were added in the 2nd and she started getting over her agoraphobia. The show really regressed by having that airplane fall out of the sky (seriously WTF??) and bringing her agoraphobia back. I just realized she got out of the house to steal that baby so maybe she doesn't have the phobia anymore.

Veronica is AMAZING!! Love that bitch. She is so inappropriate and care-free. Just my kind of character. I agree about her & Kev - they just work together & are perfect. I think they're one of the most real and believable. couples on TV. I hope in the next season they find out they're with child

Bob was just a strange character. That whole story just fell flat for me. Everything with Monica did. I couldn't believe any of it. I really hope they never bring Monica back because she is awful and has no redeeming qualities.

The show really missed some big hits w/Kash, his wife, and the Milkovich's. It makes me angry because there was soo much potential. Kash just disappeared. It would've been great to see his wife just once raise hell on Ian for porking her husband.

Everything the writers did with Mandy this season was a mess. They turned her into a straight up slut! The recast was awful. Mandy used to be an interesting, edgy down to earth girl and then.... Embarrasment. Things could've been so different. Why didn't they just have her find out about Ian (her best friend) sleeping with her brother and deal with the fallout from that for the season?

As for Micky, I was hoping he really had feelings for Ian. Their relationship was oddly sweet to me until Micky ended up dissing him like that. The show really wasted a great opportunity exploring a real relationship between those two.

Now, Ian has this new story where he's secretly sleeping with Jimmy's dad. I'm interested in seeing how this goes. LMAO!!

I absolutely LOVE Debbie and her journey into womanhood story. This was one of the best things about Season 2 for me. They're developing her character really well and I look forward to whatever they have in store for her next. Just please no to her & Carl's little friend she has a crush on. Waste of time!

ROTFL...I just can't with Jody. I love the actor but really I was done when they had him and Sheila sex it up.

A lot of the stuff with Frank didn't make sense. I didn't get the scene either. He really is a POS. Loved that the last scene of the show was the family kicking him outside into the snow!

OMG, I thought Karen's baby was going to be black as well Because we got that random scene w/her going to that black guys house and talking about how they had sex. Karen was the most revolting character. They did a hatchet job to her this season! She was bad in the 1st as well but I at least found myself caring about her a little bit..

For some reason, I don't like Steve/Jimmy that much. Something about him irks me and I get this smug vibe out of Justin Chatwin's performances. I do think him & Fiona have chem. I LOVE his foreign wife Estefania though I love that it looks like she might be a regular next season.

Omg I miss that cop as well! I forgot his name already. What a mistake putting him on the back burner. I thought him & Fiona were so cute and I wanted things to go farther between them!

And LOL at your serial killer comment about Carl. So true.

The Sheila/Grammy showdown was EPIC. Louise Fletcher, once again, killed it. "I will f!ck you up!!" The pure chaos of that scene was perfect.

Yeah, I need more Veronica/Kevin. Season 3 seems like it will have more of them now that that random Jasmine ho is out of the picture, so that's good. Veronica is Fiona's only real friend who hasn't let her down.

I really didn't care about Kash and Linda. I thought the whole story was kinda gross, and not really because he was clearly in his 30s and having sex with a 16-year-old. Just the whole concept of the whimpy grown man who's scared of his wife...just ew. The worst was when Kash tried to get it from Ian at home, and even Ian was like "Yeah...no. How about we not." I was worried that Ian was going to "fall" for Lloyd, but now that Mickey's back, I don't think he will. If he just sees it as sex, then that's all right. I'm not as disgusted by him and Lloyd as I was by him and Kash because at least Lloyd has some kind of confidence. Kash was just an immature idiot.

What, you didn't like Lil Hank? LOL!

Jody's hilarious as a character, but he's such a moron. I love how his sex theme is Kiss from a Rose.

Karen was just a disgusting bitch by the end of the season. I can't believe they really went there with her and really didn't stop at all from painting her to be completely and totally selfish. They didn't care at all to give her any layers anymore.

Estefania is flawless! I would have loved her and Marco having little scenes here and there where they talk sh!t about the Gallaghers and Steve in Portuguese. But Marco

I couldnt believe Sheila left the house when the baby was born either and the shwo missed an oppurtunity to show her struggling at the hospital being so far from home and around so many new people. She was just fine with it all!

They gave her a throwaway line about how she was just fine with being out of the house. They made a big deal out of her getting out of the house a few times in the first season, so I guess they didn't want to spend any time on that this time, though it wouldn't have hurt to show her pause before leaving the house.

And WHAT THE HELL with ALLLLL of the Gallaghers, including Liam, being allowed in the delivery room. I love this show, I really do, but they certainly ask us to believe a LOT.

One more thing. FIONA! I'm so glad she got her GED! I now LOVE the character, after just being "meh" to her for so long. She makes mistakes, but she's really stepping up in new, mature ways, and I'm so proud of her. The club promoting thing is a setback for right now, but if she sticks with it, she can make it work. I love that she's not giving into Lip's childish behavior and sticking to her guns about being legit.

I'm just gonna keep talking to myself as I make my way through the season kthxbye

The pedophile ep was so BIZARRE. All of a sudden Lip is on this crusade to rid the neighborhood of sex offenders? I understand that he was pissed about his sister having to see some guy jack off on the train, but why was no one concerned when Debbie was entertaining naked homeless men in the pool a few episodes ago? Oh, I understand, that was supposed to be "comical" and this is supposed to be "dramatic." This show is just so inconsistent! And THEN, he goes off on Ian for having sex with Kash and says he wanted to call the police multiple times, but didn't he get all snuggled up with Estefania at the very end of season 2? How old is she supposed to be? And THEENNNN the whole bizarre thing with the teacher. Isn't Lip 18 now? At the very least, he's 17, and even if he lied to her and told her he was 16, wouldn't the police know his real age (considering he's been recently arrested twice) and not care? He also showed himself to be extremely hypocritical, because he clearly enjoyed having sex with the older woman. And one last thing. WHY did he recruit the Milkovich pa to help round up the pedophiles when we know that he molests and has sex with his daughter?

And then the Frank plot with Hymie. The bartender who heard him call CPS just stood there and did nothing while he poked the baby with a thumb tack and then sat there and demanded he be served more alcohol that he won't ever pay for. Stupid.

The Fiona plot with the supermarket guy. I knew he was going to be a creep right away because he was fat, and sure enough, he was. Instead of trying to get her co-workers to "vote" on what they should do to him, why didn't she just use the recording of the guy and Veronica? I did love the scenes of the ladies hashing the whole thing over, though.

Really, the only two plots that made a substantial amount of sense in these two eps were Ian and Mickey dealing with Ned/Lloyd and Veronica and Kevin dealing with Cheryl. Veronica is such an awesome, unique character, and SH never fails to get to the core of who she is, no matter what. Both she and Fi being totally dismissive of Cheryl was hilarious and usually that groupthink stuff annoys me, but that Cheryl bitch had it coming 100%. LOL at Veronica telling her to just get in the car and go, because you know she was gonna try to get in the last word. Noel Fisher is just as great an actor. He adds so much to Mickey that's beyond the actual lines he's given. I LOL'd at the whole "Yeah, I f!cked Angie. Everybody f!cks Angie. *beat* You don't f!ck Angie?" Even in that funny exchange, you could see something just below his surface that shows how his feelings towards Ian are changing and strengthening. He's probably scared to death by the fact that Ian is STILL trying to be a part of his life -- he's simply not used to that.

The pedophile ep was so BIZARRE. All of a sudden Lip is on this crusade to rid the neighborhood of sex offenders? I understand that he was pissed about his sister having to see some guy jack off on the train, but why was no one concerned when Debbie was entertaining naked homeless men in the pool a few episodes ago? Oh, I understand, that was supposed to be "comical" and this is supposed to be "dramatic." This show is just so inconsistent! And THEN, he goes off on Ian for having sex with Kash and says he wanted to call the police multiple times, but didn't he get all snuggled up with Estefania at the very end of season 2? How old is she supposed to be? And THEENNNN the whole bizarre thing with the teacher. Isn't Lip 18 now? At the very least, he's 17, and even if he lied to her and told her he was 16, wouldn't the police know his real age (considering he's been recently arrested twice) and not care? He also showed himself to be extremely hypocritical, because he clearly enjoyed having sex with the older woman. And one last thing. WHY did he recruit the Milkovich pa to help round up the pedophiles when we know that he molests and has sex with his daughter?

I think that the whole point of Lip's posse was to show how hypocritical people are on the sex offender front. The second they saw she was a hot woman, they all went on their way. Mandy was the only one who stood up to her and sent her packing like the pervert that she is. To me, the teacher was even worse than Kash because she was clearly getting off mostly on the fact that he was young and that she was in control. The sick humor of it was Lip using this to manipulate her and get some.

I agree that this show is incredibly inconsistent. There are more plot holes and inconsistencies than I can count, but it's still entertaining to me and I like the actors so, I try not to over think the glaring issues with tone and plot.

Yay, someone's finally rejoining the conversation lol The show comes back in less than two weeks now, so you all might as well read my posts to recap season three!

That's pretty much the way I decided to read the pedophile ep, that it was mainly about showing hypocrisy. Lip and Kev are selling drugs and alcohol to underage teens, but Lip wants to be a bastion of morality? It was just a weird, weird episode, but I'm glad we got the Lip/Ian scenes out of it.

As far as the inconsistency, I'm really just beginning to view any Frank plotlines as cartoons. The last ep I watched ended with Fiona finding out that Frank called CPS, but even still, up until this point, there is really no reason why any of those kids should want Frank anywhere near them at all. They treat Monica with such disdain, but Frank goes back and forth from being scum of the earth to wacky drunk dad. Really can't take any of that serious anymore, and I really don't see a point to Frank even being around anymore. He was an integral part of setting the show up in the beginning, but it's really about the kids and their friends/lovers now.

Fiona really ticked me off with how insensitive she was towards Jimmy. He was completely right when he called her out on always trying to compare tragedies. Chatwin and Emmy were both great in that scene, but I sided with Jimmy all the way. The main difference between Jimmy's problem with Lloyd sleeping with Ian and the various problems Fiona brought up were that many of the Fiona problems were problems that could have been avoided if she simply took better care of the kids and cut Frank completely out of their lives. Ever since Monica came to stay last season, she's been way more lax in running the household, and it's no wonder CPS came and took the kids. I was mad at her again for acting as if it was so horrible for them to take the kids!

Carl and Liam really ended up in a nice place, but of course, the Gallaghers don't know how to have nice things, so of course Fiona was all approving when she realized Carl was trying to sabotage his stay with them. I don't understand why Lip is in the group home. Did he ever graduate from high school? Aren't they officially in summer now? He should be 18 or pretty close to it. Also, is it really common for kids like Lip and Ian to end up in a "group home" that is more akin to a Sally Jessy Raphael boot camp?

Mickey and Ian The kiss was so quick, but so, so necessary and sweet! Their little rendezvous at the Milkovich house was also nice, but WTF at Mickey randomly having those balls to stick in his ass! I'm scared of what's gonna happen now with them Mickey finally seemed ready to open up and be more emotionally attached, but now what?

The Veronica/Kev/Mama stuff. JESUS. I thought it was funny in the beginning, but once again, the show bordered on bizarre with them constantly trying to have sex with each other and then Veronica and Mama sitting on either end of Kevin. Just gross. A lot of it was hilarious, though, so I will definitely give them that.

Sheila and Jody...still love Sheila, and loved her going off on Frank, but I'm still finding it hard to care about them now that they're so disconnected from the rest of the show. I hate to say it, but Karen needs to return soon for them to gain some relevance. Her absence has been felt more than Jimmy/Steve's at the beginning of season two, to be honest.

LOL at this bitch Mama Kamala.

Oh, and the Molly stuff. If she's really gone after this episode, WHAT was the point of having her there besides "Harharhar girlpenis ladysack harharharharhar"??? They sorta used her to create friction between Lip and Mandy (JAW did fantastic with all of those scenes) and Mandy and Fiona, but if her mom was just gonna return and pick her up, what was the whole point? The mom was hilarious too, and I'd love it if she stuck around, but I guess since her scenes were cut, she won't be back.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by All My Shadows

As far as the inconsistency, I'm really just beginning to view any Frank plotlines as cartoons. The last ep I watched ended with Fiona finding out that Frank called CPS, but even still, up until this point, there is really no reason why any of those kids should want Frank anywhere near them at all. They treat Monica with such disdain, but Frank goes back and forth from being scum of the earth to wacky drunk dad. Really can't take any of that serious anymore, and I really don't see a point to Frank even being around anymore. He was an integral part of setting the show up in the beginning, but it's really about the kids and their friends/lovers now.

I think children have a very strong bond even with abusive parents. It's the only kind of life they know. That's why Debbie is the one who loves Frank the most, she hasn't learned how to create emotional distance yet. I doubt Liam even knows who Frank is and Carl is, well, Carl. I'd say Fiona remembers a time when he was a half decent father and that's why she gives him the time of day, even though she's guarded with him.

I agree with you that Frank is mostly a cartoon, but it's really too bad. WHM is excellent, but they rarely give him real moments. One of the few was when he was falling into the gutter after Monica slit her wrists. Also, when he let Lip piss all over him. Still, I wouldn't like the show as much without Frank. He is the glue that holds the show together imo. The obstacle these kids have to overcome. Some of his rants are hilarious, if you listen closely to what he's saying. The rationalizations and twists in logic are pretty insane, but great writing and delivery.

I do think they should put Frank and Sheila back together, so Sheila is more connected to the main action. I don't miss Karen in the least. She's not quite as bad as Frank, but he has 30 years on her. She's well on the way to being a soul less monster. I find her more actively malicious than Frank with the exception of Frank headbutting Ian in episode 2.

The Veronica/Kev/Mama stuff. JESUS.

Yeah, that was a little too much for me.

Fiona really ticked me off with how insensitive she was towards Jimmy. He was completely right when he called her out on always trying to compare tragedies. Chatwin and Emmy were both great in that scene, but I sided with Jimmy all the way. The main difference between Jimmy's problem with Lloyd sleeping with Ian and the various problems Fiona brought up were that many of the Fiona problems were problems that could have been avoided if she simply took better care of the kids and cut Frank completely out of their lives. Ever since Monica came to stay last season, she's been way more lax in running the household, and it's no wonder CPS came and took the kids. I was mad at her again for acting as if it was so horrible for them to take the kids!

I saw Fiona's side. He's whining about his father being bi when she's trying to dig up a dead body, for pity's sake! He was hiding the real trouble in his life from her all season long, also the fact that he was planning to bail. When you think about it, Fiona's very lucky that Estephania's father didn't decide to kill her. Meanwhile, she had no idea there was a thug outside her house for weeks. When that guy handed her the money and said Jimmy wasn't worthy, I mostly agreed. He had his foot halfway out the door to Michigan, after letting her trust him. What an ass!

Sure, Fiona should take better care of the kids, but she has limited resources and no good parenting role models. I don't know many adults who could handle five children, never mind someone who is barely grown up herself and mostly on her own, living in poverty. There's only so much she can do and it's mostly about survival.

I didn't mind that Fiona was upset that the kids were taken. The only think these people have or know is each other. They've survived by sticking together. Of course, Carl doesn't want to be with strangers, no matter how well meaning or well off they are. Plus they've been taken before and they know how bad the system can be. Liam being adopted would probably be the best thing for him, but I don't expect his siblings to see that. The others are too old and would always try to get back to Fiona.

I could understand the kids' attachment to Frank if not for the crappy way they treat Monica, someone who is obviously clinically ill and is now trying to make herself better. Frank is just content to be a freeloading piece of sh!t who ignores his kids until he needs them for his own selfish needs, and they all mostly just laugh it off in that "Oh, dad!" way. I do agree that Macy is a fantastic actor and really brings the character to life in those monologues. Even when he's doing horrible things, Macy's able to infuse something in him that makes it hard to look away.

I have to disagree about Karen in comparison to Frank, though. The fundamental thing about Karen is that she doesn't ask for people to be bothered with her. In the first season, yes, she did some evil things towards the end, but throughout most of the second season, she just wanted people to leave her alone. She may have been vile in regards to the baby, but she'd made it extremely clear from the beginning that she had no plans to keep the baby. When we found out she was pregnant, it was via her yelling at Lip to stay away from her and the baby -- and he proceeded to get involved with her and the baby. She wanted to leave the baby at the hospital so that it could be adopted -- but then Sheila and Jody decided to kidnap the kid. She finally decided to just leave, and still, Lip is constantly trying to get in contact with her. She's not actively manipulating the people around her for her own benefit the way Frank constantly does. Frank is truly scum, worse than Monica, worse than Karen, worse than Jody, worse than anyone else, IMO. Terry Milkovich might be the only one who can rival him.

I disagree on Fiona's problems, too. She's digging up a body why? That's not just some circumstance that was out of her hands the way Jimmy finding out his father has been living a secret life is. If she called him out on his hypocrisy regarding secret lives, then I'd totally back her up, but I don't agree with the way she hung herself on the cross in that scene. She's made immense sacrifices, but it was not necessary for her to do so. Yeah, that's her family and she wants to take care of them, but she never had the means to properly see to them. CPS should have been called on Frank years ago. The family would have been split up, but is that so bad compared to all of the trouble they've had to deal with over three seasons? Fiona's problem is that she gripes about what she's gone through, but no one ever asked her or expected her to go through any of it. She made the choice to ignore her deadbeat dad, and she's constantly chosen to protect him from the law in order to preserve I have absolutely no idea what.