It was during 1990 that ATWT went to #2 in the ratings.

It was during 1990 that ATWT went to #2 in the ratings.

Yeah, right behind #1 Y&R….I didn't find anything wrong or too dark about those years…1990 and 1992….GL was more light but I found it a bit cheesy and too goody goody…

Maybe because I've been somewhat binge-watching, viewing blocks of episodes in one sitting the pathos does seem unrelenting.  Still, as I mentioned before, I felt it was very well written (without question) and the drama was compelling.

Maybe because I've been somewhat binge-watching, viewing blocks of episodes in one sitting the pathos does seem unrelenting.  Still, as I mentioned before, I felt it was very well written (without question) and the drama was compelling.

IMO what i bolded from your post is what ATWT had at that time and GL lacked.

I remember GL having a lot of drama from '90-'94. What GL probably did a little better at the time is showcase it's lighter moments. Something like Ross' election nightmare episode or Hamp's bachelor party with all the guys stood out. ATWT wasn't without humor, but it was most often in banter between characters (like Kirk and Lucinda) and not the broader silliness other shows used.

ATWT was really dark for a period, but it was so organically written, you were totally sucked in.

 

 

I remember GL having a lot of drama from '90-'94. What GL probably did a little better at the time is showcase it's lighter moments. Something like Ross' election nightmare episode or Hamp's bachelor party with all the guys stood out. ATWT wasn't without humor, but it was most often in banter between characters (like Kirk and Lucinda) and not the broader silliness other shows used.

ATWT was really dark for a period, but it was so organically written, you were totally sucked in.

 

 

Agreed…and also wasn't Connor's takeover of Walsh Enterprise in between in 91? That was another great story and ratings success. I wish they would have continued the Connor vs Lucinda story. By then Marland had moved on to Lucinda and Royce/Neal which was great as well but ended too soon.

Well, as dark as it was, it's got me watching.  I haven't even been watching any of the current soaps lately because I've lost interest.

Well, as dark as it was, it's got me watching.  I haven't even been watching any of the current soaps lately because I've lost interest.

I never found it dark…compared to what Black/Stern did and now Griffith on Days….ATWT didn't come close at that time. 

Something like Ross' election nightmare episode 

 

 

That was horrible. I didnt care for that episode. That was so bad….LOL

ATWT was never as great without Douglas Marland.

For me it was dark and it took more of an emotional toll because I cared, which I don't on soaps now. At the end of 1992, you had Ellie's abortion, Holden losing his memory and rejecting Lily, the end of the Crawford saga, Margo waiting to hear if she had HIV, Lily disowning her mothers, Barbara mourning for Hal and estranged from Frannie, Mac's Alzheimer's being built up. It's tough to watch at times, but still good drama. 

 

I think one of the differences between GL and ATWT at this point was that GL was looser, goofier, amidst the high drama. You had Maureen and Vanessa eating lunch on the floor at Spaulding, people dancing and laughing in the diner, Ed and Ross bantering, Billy and Hamp, the kids being kids, Bridget's antics, etc. Marland didn't really do that type of looseness by that time, outside of a bit with Tom and Margo and then Lucinda's barbs, her secretary Thelma, and the hard-edged acidity of Marcy and Tess that could be a lot of fun. 

 

The wedding with Andy and Courtney was nice though.

Edited February 26, 20169 yr by DRW50

For me it was dark and it took more of an emotional toll because I cared, which I don't on soaps now. At the end of 1992, you had Ellie's abortion, Holden losing his memory and rejecting Lily, the end of the Crawford saga, Margo waiting to hear if she had HIV, Lily disowning her mothers, Barbara mourning for Hal and estranged from Frannie, Mac's Alzheimer's being built up. It's tough to watch at times, but still good drama. 

 

 

All those stories were great stories and it was because fans cared and thats why they tuned in. If you care for characters you'll watch no matter how dark the stories are. Nowadays the characters are just so awfully written and acted that you don't care…i.e...…Morgan from GH is one of many. I do have to say that I wasn't happy with Holden losing his memory and rejecting Lily…and he wasn't suppose to get his memory back but once Marland passed away the new writers changed it. Holden and Lily were suppose to be apart for some time and fall in love with each other once again but a new without Holden's memory's of Lily.

 

I think one of the differences between GL and ATWT at this point was that GL was looser, goofier, amidst the high drama. You had Maureen and Vanessa eating lunch on the floor at Spaulding, people dancing and laughing in the diner, Ed and Ross bantering, Billy and Hamp, the kids being kids, Bridget's antics, etc. Marland didn't really do that type of looseness by that time, outside of a bit with Tom and Margo and then Lucinda's barbs, her secretary Thelma, and the hard-edged acidity of Marcy and Tess that could be a lot of fun. 

 

 

Thats a good description for GL at that time. I sometimes didnt watch GL because of it and had been fulfilled with great drama on ATWT.

Edited February 26, 20169 yr by Soapsuds

Agreed…and also wasn't Connor's takeover of Walsh Enterprise in between in 91? That was another great story and ratings success. I wish they would have continued the Connor vs Lucinda story. By then Marland had moved on to Lucinda and Royce/Neal which was great as well but ended too soon.

That's so long ago, I can't pin it down to a specific year without looking at the bible. It was a crime to only have Mary Kay Adams for that six months to a year. Killing her off was a mistake. I don't know if that's all she wanted, or what, but it was a shame. Especially when it's like they traded Neal in for Sam, who wasn't nearly as good or interesting.

Well, as dark as it was, it's got me watching.  I haven't even been watching any of the current soaps lately because I've lost interest.

I never found it dark…compared to what Black/Stern did and now Griffith on Days….ATWT didn't come close at that time. 

Something like Ross' election nightmare episode 

That was horrible. I didnt care for that episode. That was so bad….LOL

Yeah, I thought the Ross stuff thing was goofier than hell, but I couldn't really come up with other specific examples.

 

The crap that passes for drama nowadays---it's all plot point driven. Yes, Marland got dark and depressing, but for the most part, everyone's actions had a grounded, reasonable (to them at least) motivation and consequences that carried through and generated the next arc in the story. Margo didn't just get raped and shook it off in twelve weeks---we saw her marriage affected, and she underwent HIV tests every six months for like two years afterward.

 

Don't get me started on the crap that is GH, with that supposedly realistic bipolar story. It's rare that I'd notice how badly directed something is, but between Morgan's dock scenes and Sonny's church heroics, I'm convinced GH's stable of directors just don't GAS anymore.

Agreed…and also wasn't Connor's takeover of Walsh Enterprise in between in 91? That was another great story and ratings success. I wish they would have continued the Connor vs Lucinda story. By then Marland had moved on to Lucinda and Royce/Neal which was great as well but ended too soon.

That's so long ago, I can't pin it down to a specific year without looking at the bible. It was a crime to only have Mary Kay Adams for that six months to a year. Killing her off was a mistake. I don't know if that's all she wanted, or what, but it was a shame. Especially when it's like they traded Neal in for Sam, who wasn't nearly as good or interesting

 

Mary Kay Adams only wanted a short term visit on ATWT. I thought she was great on GL and was glad to see her on ATWT. Having her and Terry Lester opposite Liz Hubbard was a dream. I always wanted those two actors on ATWT. As for Sam…ugh….she was so boring played by two awful actress.  

Agreed…and also wasn't Connor's takeover of Walsh Enterprise in between in 91? That was another great story and ratings success. I wish they would have continued the Connor vs Lucinda story. By then Marland had moved on to Lucinda and Royce/Neal which was great as well but ended too soon.

That's so long ago, I can't pin it down to a specific year without looking at the bible. It was a crime to only have Mary Kay Adams for that six months to a year. Killing her off was a mistake. I don't know if that's all she wanted, or what, but it was a shame. Especially when it's like they traded Neal in for Sam, who wasn't nearly as good or interesting.

Well, as dark as it was, it's got me watching.  I haven't even been watching any of the current soaps lately because I've lost interest.

I never found it dark…compared to what Black/Stern did and now Griffith on Days….ATWT didn't come close at that time. 

Something like Ross' election nightmare episode 

That was horrible. I didnt care for that episode. That was so bad….LOL

 

The crap that passes for drama nowadays---it's all plot point driven. Yes, Marland got dark and depressing, but for the most part, everyone's actions had a grounded, reasonable (to them at least) motivation and consequences that carried through and generated the next arc in the story. Margo didn't just get raped and shook it off in twelve weeks---we saw her marriage affected, and she underwent HIV tests every six months for like two years afterward.

 

Don't get me started on the crap that is GH, with that supposedly realistic bipolar story. It's rare that I'd notice how badly directed something is, but between Morgan's dock scenes and Sonny's church heroics, I'm convinced GH's stable of directors just don't GAS anymore.

Those were the days that all the beats of the story were played out. When stories were so good you didn't want them to end.

 

GH is a joke. GH use to hire good actors with looks now all they hire are either lean cut actors who can not act one bit or actors who can't act who think they can and believe they are hot stuff……cough…Morgan character…cough...

Edited February 26, 20169 yr by Soapsuds

For me it was dark and it took more of an emotional toll because I cared, which I don't on soaps now. At the end of 1992, you had Ellie's abortion, Holden losing his memory and rejecting Lily, the end of the Crawford saga, Margo waiting to hear if she had HIV, Lily disowning her mothers, Barbara mourning for Hal and estranged from Frannie, Mac's Alzheimer's being built up. It's tough to watch at times, but still good drama. 

 

I think one of the differences between GL and ATWT at this point was that GL was looser, goofier, amidst the high drama. You had Maureen and Vanessa eating lunch on the floor at Spaulding, people dancing and laughing in the diner, Ed and Ross bantering, Billy and Hamp, the kids being kids, Bridget's antics, etc. Marland didn't really do that type of looseness by that time, outside of a bit with Tom and Margo and then Lucinda's barbs, her secretary Thelma, and the hard-edged acidity of Marcy and Tess that could be a lot of fun. 

 

The wedding with Andy and Courtney was nice though.

Those story linesare exactly what made me turn it off.  Anyone one of them would have been good if they were the lone "dark" storyline, but all of them at once? Add to that, Marland, except for a few characters, (Lucinda, John, Lisa) made all his characters (if they were "good," ) so earnest and serious they came off as sanctimonious bores.  At that time on GL the characters seemed more vibrant and real....for example Marland would never have one "good " character dislike another "good" character, but on GL you would have Vanessa and Maureen (the matriarch of the show) gossiping and being catty about Nadine, while Nadine would do the same about Van, but they were still "good" people. (though I agree JFP's gimmicky "day" stories like Ross election and the guys hang out were a bit much.) You would never see  KIm and Ellen being bitchy about Connor or Lucinda. GL just had energy to it, while ATWT resembled Marland fave Iva...dowdy, serious, and a downer...and yes, I did think Marland was a good writer who saved the show from the "Dobson" era of cheesiness.

I know Margo's rape is good writing but I hate rape, done in drama, especially for a character like Margo. Yes, I know strong, good, funny women get raped but I am not entertained by that.

Terry Lester Interview 1993.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KXP0J1uahcY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 20169 yr by SoapDope